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kobra860 · 01-19-2013, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Rayfu

So its wrong? who says? you? he says being gay is, and in many places it was\is, so what makes something wrong?

So you don't think murder is wrong? There are some things that are unquestionably wrong. Rape, pedophilia, and murder are some examples. In fact, the guy who wrote the letter would agree with that because The Bible condemns people who engage in those acts. The parts about condemning gay people were only added in recently because terms like "homosexual" weren't created until the 19th century. Over time people modified the interpretation of The Bible to fit their agenda.

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My point was more of your using the whole "its not a choice thing" but I've shown a part where even if its not a choice you still think its wrong, so now we know you, like them (if we pretend we know for a fact being gay is not a choice) that you hate someone for doing something they where born with

Being gay isn't something that will hurt the lives of others. If someone is born a certain way that will negatively impact the lives of others (i.e. psychopaths) then the person needs therapy to learn how to deal with their problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayfu

Note, the reason we don't kill them, is Christ came back latter and said "let the man who is sinless throw the first stone" since none of us are sinless, we are just like them

Plus Christ died for all men sin so that we are "forgiving" more or less, even if yopu dont want it, we are to forgive like Christ *

* We sure do a bang up job of that dont we?

Now please note most of these DO have a translation\explanation that makes it NOT about being gay, how ever most are not accepted\they reach
many the last one, has none, that I'm aware of

There may be a diffreint point for the last one, I have not seen it, if you must know the first ones some believe that the Greek terms used were meant to describe the homosexual behavior present at Pagan temples, a "lose" one at best but possible.

Some see roams as talking about prostitution rather then being gay, but they make no mention of WHY it mentions male on male and female on female then

So to be sure, its not 100% clear, but for many and their beliefs it is, just like your belife that its ok, or that its not a choice and your born that way

As for how Gays are made
I said we don't know, diet may influence it, we KNOW diet can effluence WHEN man (as in mankind)decides to mate, how (in terms of who they pick, and what they look for) and what not, maybe it can effluence what they pick
As for God, it could be punishment, it could be God loves Gays and thats the next step, it could be God is a dick and we have the wrong guy in the bible and he just messing with us

As for it being harmfulness I gave more, if God exist then he says it is, and there for it is (sucks to be sure)

I said it may be a mutation, which could end up being more problematic later
it could still be a mental illness (this one is the least likely oddly enough, so many things that would "make it one" can and have been proven wrong but there are still some of them that have not)

It could also be a sign of becoming "Savage" (This is one of the worst I ever heard and I disagree with it 200% but the simple fact is I cant "disprove it" and just its just as a valid opinion as any of the ones I have for why its okay)

The book of Leviticus condemns a lot of things like tattoos, working on Sunday, cutting your hair or shaving, wearing clothes made from more than one fabric, and advocates killing people who commit adultery. If the lines you used are supposed to be interpreted as condemning gay people then why ignore the other rules?

Wait you said that diet can make someone gay? LMAO!!!!!!!!

**Obfuscation** · 01-19-2013, 08:19 AM

Better make sure I don't cut off carbs or else I'll start having an attraction towards Chris Sabin.

Diet factoring in. My stars. I don't even know what to say.

**Crona** · 01-19-2013, 12:10 PM

What makes my way of thinking different than Hitler's? Are you kidding me? For one, I do not have a deep-seated hatred for Jewish persons that leads me to try to exterminate them.

Leave... just leave and save yourself the embarrassment. This is getting tiresome and really confusing. I highly doubt that you even know what you're saying and you base EVERYTHING you say of random assumptions of anything that has been discussed.

Mr. High IQ · 01-19-2013, 07:43 PM

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Originally Posted by kobra860

So you're saying that it's wrong for people to be intolerant of baseless bigotry? lol. That doesn't make any sense.

I'm saying it's wrong for simpletons to spread hatred for a man who's acting only in kindness, even if that kindness is rooted in viewpoints they disagree with.

For example, I despise atheism. I think it's a step beneath magic on the list of credible ideas (rabbit out of hat = magic; everything out of nothingness = atheism), and I think it poses a huge threat to humankind. However, if an atheist came up to me and tried to sell me on the dangers of theism, and the joys of atheism, as long as he was polite about it, I would be polite in return. I certainly wouldn't throw a hissy fit, call him names, and tell him how horrible his beliefs are and what a terrible human being he is. Reacting that way towards someone who was polite, civil, and (in their own mind) being caring and considerate would make me a little bitch, and a bitch Mr. High IQ aint.

Yet this is exactly how the majority of the media, and many of the people in this thread have reacted towards the letter sender. You're all too frighteningly stupid to realize that you're the ones oozing the hatred and intolerance, not the man who wrote the letter. He may have been wrong, but he was polite and civil. You people, on the other hand, are vicious, blood-lusting animals. I look down with disdain on each and everyone of you.

One last thing while we're on the subject: Allow me to point out that there's no more evidence that bigotry against homosexuality is morally wrong than there is that homosexuality is. That's the dirty little unspoken secret of these types of debates. Those who rally against the notion of a God and/or religion have absolutely zero basis for any objectively true standard for morality. They can no more say bigotry is wrong than a Christian can say that homosexuality is. Both are unfounded claims of truth.

Perfect.Insanity · 01-19-2013, 07:54 PM

The only person who should reevaluate his life is the guy who handled them the note.

Stop interfering in the personal life of people , moron.

kobra860 · 01-19-2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. High IQ

I'm saying it's wrong for simpletons to spread hatred for a man who's acting only in kindness, even if that kindness is rooted in viewpoints they disagree with.

For example, I despise atheism. I think it's a step beneath magic on the list of credible ideas (rabbit out of hat = magic; everything out of nothingness = atheism), and I think it poses a huge threat to humankind. However, if an atheist came up to me and tried to sell me on the dangers of theism, and the joys of atheism, as long as he was polite about it, I would be polite in return. I certainly wouldn't throw a hissy fit, call him names, and tell him how horrible his beliefs are and what a terrible human being he is. Reacting that way towards someone who was polite, civil, and (in their own mind) being caring and considerate would make me a little bitch, and a bitch Mr. High IQ aint.

Yet this is exactly how the majority of the media, and many of the people in this thread have reacted towards the letter sender. You're all too frighteningly stupid to realize that you're the ones oozing the hatred and intolerance, not the man who wrote the letter. He may have been wrong, but he was polite and civil. You people, on the other hand, are vicious, blood-lusting animals. I look down with disdain on each and everyone of you.

One last thing while we're on the subject: Allow me to point out that there's no more evidence that bigotry against homosexuality is morally wrong than there is that homosexuality is. That's the dirty little unspoken secret of these types of debates. Those who rally against the notion of a God and/or religion have absolutely zero basis for any objectively true standard for morality. They can no more say bigotry is wrong than a Christian can say that homosexuality is. Both are unfounded claims of truth.

There's nothing polite and civil about writing a letter to someone that you don't even know about how much you don't like them for who they are. It's not anyone's business. He's not acting in kindness. Let's not get delusional here. If he was, he would have spelled affection correctly. lol.

Rayfu · 01-19-2013, 08:32 PM

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So you don't think murder is wrong? There are some things that are unquestionably wrong. Rape, pedophilia, and murder are some examples. In fact, the guy who wrote the letter would agree with that because The Bible condemns people who engage in those acts. The parts about condemning gay people were only added in recently because terms like "homosexual" weren't created until the 19th century. Over time people modified the interpretation of The Bible to fit their agenda.

Show proof please, the homosexuality yes, that's a new word, but the oringal word was men sleeping with men, there is no denying this, go look up that Lev erse in the old languages

It did not say homosexuality but it DID say men sleeping with men, this was not "Edited" you can read scrolls form thousands of years ago to back it up

Just like classifications of birds is new, and back then the word was "flying creatures" more or less, but since new words\ classification, it don't translate 100%

the point how ever is still there, putting homosexauilty is putting the closest word we have to it, but the idea is still the same having sex with men as a men is called wrong

you keep claiming its edited but you show no proof?

In fact I'm the only one that has posted anything of the sort, a guy posted verse numbers, and I posted what they said, he then claimed they where the wrong ones

but they are no.

Whats more is you classified cretin things as "unquestionably wrong" but guess what? he dose too, what makes your ophion on those anymore right then his?

You say "its clear how murder is wrong, if you dont agree then your a monster\something is wrong"

But HE sees it the same was, as did hittler

why dose your side get to decide whats right and wrong?

why is your "no doubt" wrong any more creditable then theirs?

he agrees with most of yours, but he has one that is not shared and that one is wrong?

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Being gay isn't something that will hurt the lives of others. If someone is born a certain way that will negatively impact the lives of others (i.e. psychopaths) then the person needs therapy to learn how to deal with their problems.

But the thing is, it dose hurt themselfs (if you dont count the kids who could be born\kids they adopt and you belive a kid really needs "both parents" to have a good life) if there is a God, as well as who ever they are with, if they dont go to Christ.

As a chirstain as far as you know, if they dont go to Christ and sadily, some belive, if they dont stop being Gay then it will harm them as well as others, in this lifer and the next

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The book of Leviticus condemns a lot of things like tattoos, working on Sunday, cutting your hair or shaving, wearing clothes made from more than one fabric, and advocates killing people who commit adultery. If the lines you used are supposed to be interpreted as condemning gay people then why ignore the other rules?

How about you read the bible instead of posting the cliche stuff you see on the itnert all the time
Christ says let the first man who is sinless throw the first stone meaning you cant stone someone for seining because we also sined, whats more its not just Leviticus, roman, a new tesetment book even says its wrong
So even if you believe Christ made the OT no good any more, and only the nt matters (many do) gays are still listed as wrong

As for why they believe it, the ot is the old covenant, and the new one is the well new
some verse says the old gives way to the new, I believe there is more to it then that but unlike most I know and belive there is NO WAY any of us, me you or him can truly know whats right and wrong if there is a God, and if there is not, then we have to ask why would anything be wrong if there is nothing to set the rules?

back on topic about levi
Half of those are
A. no longer needed as we cant pash judgement God will do that at the end times now, Christ told us only the sinlles may dish out the punishment (not in those words of course) we have no room to talk, so the killings no longer happen. Even then we are called to do what Christ dose, which is forgive, so if they sin we are to forgive, how ever Christ also helped pepole he did not even know "fight" their sinful ways, as this man did.

B. Apllyed to jews\where used because they made men "unclean" where now its not about staying unclean, but following Jesus

Back then the rules where there because you could NOT ask for forgiveness, sacrifices and many other things where needed, and those things they said dont do made you unclean

Back then Sin was bad becuse it could be hard to forgiving and those who where unclean could make others unclean, that's not longer the case.

Jesus and other things have made most of those rules no longer aplly OR its just like when we lie, its bad but is forgiving, I wont tell you I follow every rule in the bible, to do so would to be perfect, and I am not. The problem you make is you ask why we dont follow this rule or this rule, and many times the simple awnser is we dont cause we dont want to, we sin, we choice to keep doing it, we never said we where perfect (I'm sure some have)

But you did not bother to look that up did you?
Nope, you read Leviticus, see something we don't follow and assumed we pick and choice,with OUT reading the whole bible

Do me a favor read the Constitution but read only cretin parts, you know, avoid the one that says women can now vote, would it be fair to say america is sexist? NO becuse later on it says they can, just as the bible dose to

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Wait you said that diet can make someone gay? LMAO!!!!!!!!

Give up, I said it COULD

Here is somethings we know it can do

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...-suggests.html

So it CAN affect gender of the baby before birth
It CAN affect your sex drive
And we know that wild animals also mate better when they are "fatter" but not to fat.

So how is this one out of the question? it can alredy affect your kids gender, why not what gender they like?

Tell me why is it so funny?

It afects how your brain works in many ways I.E brain foods, mints make you remember things and freshens your mind

Some things you take in to your body make you "see things" or affect your emotions\actions

Tell me why is it so far fetched to think that it may have at least some affect on being gay, they would STILL be born that way, if thats the case, (in terms if it matters what the mom eats)

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What makes my way of thinking different than Hitler's? Are you kidding me? For one, I do not have a deep-seated hatred for Jewish persons that leads me to try to exterminate them.

But you are as convinced as he is that there is noting wrong with being Gay, as he was convinced there was nothing wrong with what he did
As the guy is convinced its clear why being gay is wrong
he would say for one, man should not sleep with man
a you would say man should not kill man.

my point being

Me, you, him, or anyone else on this planet saying its WRONG dont make it so.

We can agree something is wrong 9Murder)

But what if it turns out there is no God and we are just like other animals who kill their own kind all the time?
then there would really be NOTHING wrong with it, or anything really

maybe there is no God but there still is a moral code, the point is what makes YOUR morals of what are "Clearly wrong" the right ones?

Why not the bibles?

Why dose your picks need nothing to be "wrong" but being gay cant be wrong because it clearly is?

I'm not leaving, I noticed you skip out when I ask you the hard questions about the bible

Next guy

its classic "Lol Christians pick and choice!" *Enter verses form the atheist bible, most likely form the OT* then you dont even bother to look at just copy and paste, that same website that has answers form christian for almost ALL of them, and the guy even says HE CANT SAY THEY ARE WRONG
And when I start giving exsplanjations that dont go your way its "lol you don't know what your saying give up now lol" and back to "lol you pick and choice"

Your trying to say because homosexaulity now days is kissing that it was kissing to, but you guys are right homosexuality back then was NOT around. what was, was men laying with men as they would with a women (sex) which God called wrong

Dose that mean kissing a guy is wrong? I dont think so, many old empires where the bible started kissing was a sign of welcome like a hand shake not a sign of sex

Another exsamlpe is females breast, hell, even today USA is one of the few places where its a "Sex thing" females used to go with out tops all the time, not every single man there was in sin

Here in the 21ceuntry evreything sex
holding hands? a build up to sex\if a guy and girl hold hand shtye MUST be a couple
kiss? if its two of the same gender it means they are gay (Di spite one coming form a mother to her daughters)

Also once again, why have you made no mention of where excellently the verses where wrong?

Post the verse your self then so I can see what your talking about

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobra860

There's nothing polite and civil about writing a letter to someone that you don't even know about how much you don't like them for who they are. It's not anyone's business. He's not acting in kindness. Let's not get delusional here. If he was, he would have spelled affection correctly. lol.

Where at all did he say he did not like them for who they arE? he said God loved them and he did not want their lfies to be ruined, that seems like what someone says when they LIKE you

Mr. High IQ · 01-19-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobra860

So you don't think murder is wrong? There are some things that are unquestionably wrong. Rape, pedophilia, and murder are some examples.

Question: What makes these things "unquestionably wrong?"

Note, I'm looking for a rational, unemotional answer. I don't want any answers along the lines of, "You don't think murder is wrong? What an awful person you are!" I'd like to know what basis you have to say that these things are unquestionably wrong. Is it that most people think they're wrong, and that they're wrong on the basis of majority opinion?

Rayfu · 01-19-2013, 08:45 PM

^this is what I'm trying to say, why is it okay for you to say "this is wrong" and anyone who ask why or dose it is evil, but someone else cant do the same for something else like being gay?

**Crona** · 01-19-2013, 08:51 PM

Dude... I'M NOT ATHEIST. If it really matters, I'm Anglican.

Where my sources came from: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bmar.htm

It's all about personal interpretation.