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Old 10-21-2012, 12:57 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

I wonder why bullying is so prevalent in the United States compared to the rest of the world? Shit adults = shit kids?
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:29 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

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Originally Posted by Riddle101 View Post
(1)In regards to the first three sentences. Since it's not your problem, I can only guess that you don't care about anything if it's not your problem, because it's not something you have to face yourself. So if you see someone getting beat up in the street, you'd just walk away right. Not your problem, even if a person was kicked to death or something, you wouldn't care that you allowed someone to be killed. If you can physically stop it, but wouldn't then that's pretty despicable. But if you only mean this in reference to bullying, well it's still the same thing really.
What am I supposed to do, call the police? Be the white knight? I had an uncle get murdered for the same exact thing and since then was always taught to stay out of physical confrontations that don't involve me.

And it's far from despicable. I save this person this time but what happens next time, when I'm not around? From that point on, they'll expect someone to fight their battles for them and how does that help them "mentally"? It babies them, just like they parents do.

As for your comment about "raising a kid" before making a comment: OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES!!! Parents allow they children to waste time with technology and social media, instead of spending time with them and guiding them. Amanda Todd, how the hell did her naked pics pop up? Why the fuck is a 12 year old girl posting naked pics for anyway? Why is she having sex? And the same goes for the parents of the bully, who likely teach their child to engage in that type of behavior. I don't have to raise a kid to have common fucking sense that the whole bullying concept can be detoured by the parents, if they just wake the fuck up and quit letting Twitter & I Phones run their childs lives.

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Originally Posted by Riddle101 View Post
(2)As far as life throwing us hurdles goes. We get enough shit thrown at us as it goes, making a silly excuse like bullying is just another life hurdle that has to be overcome, is a lazy way of thinking. If it can be prevented, then it should simple as, and it's not so easy to just overcome, it depends on the circumstances.
When did I make an excuse for bullying? You right, bullying can be prevented, starting from the home. If parents implement the right train of thought in their children, maybe this shit would stop. But, me getting teary eyed or wanting to play Superman won't do a damn thing because bullying is bigger than me & you, it's what makes the world go around and it will never stop. And if it can, it certainly won't be media coverage or a bunch of protests to stop it. People don't never complain about bullying until somebody fucking dies. If the media coverage wasn't there, nobody would give a fuck. It's not raising awareness because no amount of media coverage can stop it.

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Originally Posted by Riddle101 View Post
(3)As for the final part. We're just going to have to agree to disagree i'm afraid, because I just don't believe that. I already said, if it can be prevented it should, and I also said that some circumstances of bullying can't be helped by the individual involved, sometimes outside assistance is needed, and has helped in matters of bullying in the past.
And that outside assistance should come from me? Or you? Or Joe down the street? No, it's the fucking parents job to teach their kid right from wrong. Not mine and not yours. But answer this, if it doesn't come from within or the parenting, then how the hell are we going to stop a global epidemic? Certainly not by talking about it.



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Originally Posted by Riddle101 View Post
You already said that in your other post, but as I already said. Some kids might be socially awkward or something that might make them a target of bullying and stop them from being able to overcome bullying yourselves. As for the parents stepping in, for once I agree with you. It is up to the parents to step in a prevent it, both the victim and the bully's parents. But also the teacher and authority figures in the schools as well, as parents are not around their kids 24/7. But even so, it still doesn't justify ignoring it if it doesn't concern you, because if it can be stopped it should.
The bolded part is exactly the problem. Too many excuses being made for the bullied and the bully. Let's not focus as much on the victim, as it's obvious that the actual bully is somewhat socially awkward and their actions can be a cry for attention.

It's more than doing your part in stopping it. I don't need that accomplishment to boost my self esteem. Like the old saying goes, I'd rather teach you to fish then to feed you. Because if I handle the situation for the victim, thats going to make them further depend on help and prevent them from being independent and resolving issues on their own.

Only way I've ever step in to prevent something is in the case of child abuse (did it before), boy's assaulting girls (did it before) spousal abuse (did it before), bullying of the disabled (did it before) and bullying of the elderly (did it before). But, as for a teenaged boy being bullied by another the same age, I'm not putting my neck on the line, as his parents should be more aware of the situation.

Case of Amanda Todd: If here parents were "properly" raising their child, she would have never fucked at that age, sent naked pictures and would still be alive. You can't expect a total stranger to take watch over your child because at that age, school & home is the only places you should be, unless with a relative/guardian. Don't see how you expect a bystander to step in and do what the parents should be doing. Because at the end of the day, it's their job, not mine. I'm not going to raise & teach the next person's child because their parents are completely void of what is happening in their childs life. Fuck Twitter, fuck phones, fuck texting and fuck television, SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH YOUR CHILDREN, NOT EXPECT OTHERS TOO AND MAYBE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WILL STOP OCCURRING!!!
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:51 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

I am disabled I dealt with bullying and being excluded, I understand people being afraid to stand up for themselves, but seriously sometimes you need to grow a set or get hormonal if your female and stand up for yourself. Especially being an adult woman, you get called cripple? man up and prove them wrong or stand up for yourself, or straight up ignore them dont be a pussy and just fucking take it. If I did that I'd still be in to drugs and drinking and I never would have gotten laid. If you have no confidence your fucked.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:27 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

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Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
What am I supposed to do, call the police? Be the white knight? I had an uncle get murdered for the same exact thing and since then was always taught to stay out of physical confrontations that don't involve me.
Murdered for what exactly?

Still, all I'm saying is that i've read enough stories to know that a lot of problems occur because someone didn't do something about it. As the saying goes, "Evil prevails when good people fail to act". Staying out of something because it doesn't involve you is just as cowardly as your so called example of bullying victim being afraid of the consequences. It means you're either afraid of the repercussions yourself, or you simply don't care what happens to someone as long as it's not you. If you were being beat down on the street and near death, would you not like someone to intervene and try to defend you and possibly save your life?

Quote:
And it's far from despicable. I save this person this time but what happens next time, when I'm not around? From that point on, they'll expect someone to fight their battles for them and how does that help them "mentally"? It babies them, just like they parents do.
That depends on the circumstances. If it was an isolated incident were a kid for instance was being bullied in school and it was stopped, chances are that kid might be left alone. A lot of cases of bullying occur because a victim doesn't really have much support from their peers. They turn a blind eye to it, when in fact, supporting a fellow student by telling the bully to back off might be all that's needed. As for a bullying victim expecting someone to fight their own battles for them. Well that's not your concern, what matters is that you made a difference on that day.

Quote:
As for your comment about "raising a kid" before making a comment: OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES!!! Parents allow they children to waste time with technology and social media, instead of spending time with them and guiding them. Amanda Todd, how the hell did her naked pics pop up? Why the fuck is a 12 year old girl posting naked pics for anyway? Why is she having sex? And the same goes for the parents of the bully, who likely teach their child to engage in that type of behavior. I don't have to raise a kid to have common fucking sense that the whole bullying concept can be detoured by the parents, if they just wake the fuck up and quit letting Twitter & I Phones run their childs lives.
I agree a lot of parents do raise their kids by letting technology babysit them and it's the wrong way to raise a child. But at the same time, you're stereotyping. Not all kids are raised the way you think they are. Sure a kid who wasn't as fortunate to have all that stuff you listed could still be bullied. Poor kids get bullied as well you know. My point in the other post was to highlight the fact that not every kid is the same. A parent can only do so much to raise their kid, but in some cases it's not always the parents to blame.

Quote:
When did I make an excuse for bullying? You right, bullying can be prevented, starting from the home. If parents implement the right train of thought in their children, maybe this shit would stop. But, me getting teary eyed or wanting to play Superman won't do a damn thing because bullying is bigger than me & you, it's what makes the world go around and it will never stop. And if it can, it certainly won't be media coverage or a bunch of protests to stop it. People don't never complain about bullying until somebody fucking dies. If the media coverage wasn't there, nobody would give a fuck. It's not raising awareness because no amount of media coverage can stop it.
Ok I agree for the most part with this. Nobody is expecting you or me to be a superman, and yes i'm aware bullying will most likely never stop. But having good principles helps in life too. If I can physically help someone, I would. I'm not going to turn a blind eye to something I can prevent. Stopping one act of bullying is better then not stopping anything, and just living life with this attitude that if it's not my problem then I don't have to do anything about it.

Quote:
And that outside assistance should come from me? Or you? Or Joe down the street? No, it's the fucking parents job to teach their kid right from wrong. Not mine and not yours. But answer this, if it doesn't come from within or the parenting, then how the hell are we going to stop a global epidemic? Certainly not by talking about it.
Besides parents, authority figures are another solution as well. People who can physically prevent it, like students and peers. But that's what the BE A Star stuff is for right, to create awareness and to stand up to it.


Quote:
The bolded part is exactly the problem. Too many excuses being made for the bullied and the bully. Let's not focus as much on the victim, as it's obvious that the actual bully is somewhat socially awkward and their actions can be a cry for attention.
True their are two sides to every coin. But at the same time, it's just a matter of circumstance. Either way I'm just saying, that in the case of some victims, it might not be so easy to say that the victim can physically do something about it himself, it depends on a person's personality.

Quote:
It's more than doing your part in stopping it. I don't need that accomplishment to boost my self esteem. Like the old saying goes, I'd rather teach you to fish then to feed you. Because if I handle the situation for the victim, thats going to make them further depend on help and prevent them from being independent and resolving issues on their own.
What if the victim learned from it? What if the victim grew up. Maybe helping the victim out, might give the victim enough confidence to be able to do something about it in the future because you helped him. Maybe your actions were enough to motivate him, or maybe you gave him a bit of self esteem by teaching by example. There's also another saying "Teach by example".

Quote:
Only way I've ever step in to prevent something is in the case of child abuse (did it before), boy's assaulting girls (did it before) spousal abuse (did it before), bullying of the disabled (did it before) and bullying of the elderly (did it before). But, as for a teenaged boy being bullied by another the same age, I'm not putting my neck on the line, as his parents should be more aware of the situation.
So you're a robin hood type figure eh? Take from the rich and give to the poor. Or in this case, help the unfortunate leave the not so unfortunate. The last line of this quote, doesn't really work IMO. Why is it only the parents problem when someone who is healthy enough, is getting bullied, but not so much when a disabled kid is? It's all the same thing really.

Quote:
Case of Amanda Todd: If here parents were "properly" raising their child, she would have never fucked at that age, sent naked pictures and would still be alive. You can't expect a total stranger to take watch over your child because at that age, school & home is the only places you should be, unless with a relative/guardian. Don't see how you expect a bystander to step in and do what the parents should be doing. Because at the end of the day, it's their job, not mine. I'm not going to raise & teach the next person's child because their parents are completely void of what is happening in their childs life. Fuck Twitter, fuck phones, fuck texting and fuck television, SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH YOUR CHILDREN, NOT EXPECT OTHERS TOO AND MAYBE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WILL STOP OCCURRING!!!
Amanda Todd was 15 right? did you ever do anything when you were 15 that you didn't want your parents to know about. People a naturally curious, and i'm not trying to make an excuse for her. But at 15, a teenager would be going through puberty. Whatever the reason she sent naked pictures, it's highly likely her parents didn't know about it. Is it their fault? Well I'd like to know more about the situation. She could have had great loving parents who just didn't know, and it wouldn't be their fault entirely. But whatever, there's already a thread or her so i'm not going to talk anymore about her here.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:32 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

Man, you type too fucking much and I'm not about to sit here and address the whole post but I will point out a few key points.

1) You always have to look at the bigger picture of things. I don't want to be the 1 that uses "saving the bullied" as something to brag about to make me more endearing to society. I might make a difference for the day but really, how much of a difference is that making? I'm not a role model, I'm not a white knight and I'm not protection. I can think of various people and situations that I would honest to God devote my life to helping but a teenager who allows himself to be teased is not one of them. You got to understand, I'm 26 years old, I'm not fighting no battles for no little kids and if parents did they fucking job, I won't be anywhere near these kids. No physical help coming from me. And no perfectly able adult should be getting bullied anyway.

2) My uncle got murdered by stepping in and preventing an innocent person from being assaulted. And if you think for a second, thats reason enough to not intervene in certain matters and as I previously said, I'm 26!!! I shouldn't be around children that ain't mine, my friends or related to me. And it's a problem if parents expect complete strangers to watch over their children. Not my responsibility.

3) I don't know how many more points I can make. I'm not a kid, I'm a grown ass man, so, children aren't my peers anyway. So, this whole student talk is irrelevant and like I said, if a perfectly able adult is getting bullied and don't fight back, they deserve it.

4) A kids actions is always a reflection of parenting. And whats wrong with the world today is always pointing the blame at media or the school system. Media does more harm than good and the school system can only do so much. Proper parenting should teach kids right from wrong. It's just like domestic abuse. So many case, of people I know that abuse their spouse, witnessed it as a child. And parenting and some kind of childhood experience will always have an affect on 1 growing up and entering the real world. Parents shouldn't expect anybody else to mold their kid into a model citizen.

5) Fuck that Be A Star shit. It worked just as much as D.A.R.E. did back in the 90s. If anything, it made the epidemic grow. And yeah, authority figures should step in. Problem is, you shouldn't expect all bystanders to feel the urge to respond or get help. It all comes from within.

6) Victim doesn't have to physically do something. The shit that pisses me off is that it's okay for the victim to remain defenseless and not do shit but if an innocent bystander looks the other way or ignores it, they're made out to be bad people.

7) If "if" was a fifth, we'd all be drunk. Once again, I'm 26. Rather dumb and irresponsible for me to be physically assaulting teenagers (while on probation) because Lil Jimmy is too much of a punk to defend himself. No way. You can learn by example, it's called getting tired of getting your ass kicked and FIGHTING BACK!!!

8) Because a disabled kid can't do shit. But this healthy bastard down the street can but chooses not to because he's scared. Thats his fault he can't overcome his emotions. It's not the disabled kids fault he has down syndrome or had to have his head shaved because he got lung cancer at fucking 11. These is all incidents my closest friends have been through so I'm more inclined to do that because I've done it before. Disabled people can't retaliate, that little punk ass down the street can but he won't. You don't know how bad that kid in a wheel chair wants to be in Lil Jimmy position, simply because Jimmy is able and his fear is what disables him.

You ever had a best friend with lung cancer at 11, who other kids made fun of because he had a shaved head? Did you and the rest of the kids in the neighborhood shave your heads in support of him? Did you go to school and have confrontations almost on a daily basis because of the teasing he endured, due to something he could not prevent? Don't compare a weak ass kid with a confidence disability to a person with an actual disability that limits movement, learning and other basic aspects of life that Lil Jimmy has. And for the record, they're not the same thing.

9) As far as Amanda Todd go, you're trying to make excuses for her, otherwise, you wouldn't have commented. Don't make an excuse, it's obvious that technology, social media and lack of parental involvement lead to what happened to her. But, I know 1 thing. I didn't have a cell phone at 15, didn't have my own computer and was still a virgin.



Bottom line, don't get mad at the world for not helping. Kids are too sensitive these days. And parents are too out of touch. And people like you feel that people like me MUST do something to prevent it from happening. It's not a preventable situation because somewhere, right now, somebody is getting bullied.

Oh shit, guess I better put on my cape and help them, right?
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:01 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

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Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
1) You always have to look at the bigger picture of things. I don't want to be the 1 that uses "saving the bullied" as something to brag about to make me more endearing to society. I might make a difference for the day but really, how much of a difference is that making? I'm not a role model, I'm not a white knight and I'm not protection. I can think of various people and situations that I would honest to God devote my life to helping but a teenager who allows himself to be teased is not one of them. You got to understand, I'm 26 years old, I'm not fighting no battles for no little kids and if parents did they fucking job, I won't be anywhere near these kids. No physical help coming from me. And no perfectly able adult should be getting bullied anyway.
Fair enough, you're 26. I don't expect you to go to schools or something to stop the bullies. But this whole discussion between us started because of our different views on bullying. You believe that bullying is a way of life and growing up, that it's up the the victim to deal with it. Or at least you implied it anyway. I'm trying to elaborate the fact that, part of the reason why bullying is such a problem is because people don't do anything about it because it's not their concern. Calling the victim and pussie, and turning a blind eye just makes things worse. It doesn't just have to be about the victim dealing with it, but it would be nice if people actually took a look at themselves and said, this is wrong I could probably stick up for the kid or something. But like you said, you're too old so this is more in reference to kids and teenagers, which is what the Be A Star stuff is directed at. As for helping adults, well that's another issue which doesn't need to be discussed.

Quote:
4) A kids actions is always a reflection of parenting. And whats wrong with the world today is always pointing the blame at media or the school system. Media does more harm than good and the school system can only do so much. Proper parenting should teach kids right from wrong. It's just like domestic abuse. So many case, of people I know that abuse their spouse, witnessed it as a child. And parenting and some kind of childhood experience will always have an affect on 1 growing up and entering the real world. Parents shouldn't expect anybody else to mold their kid into a model citizen.
Some parents simply don't care. Like this one kid I read about a few weeks back, who's father killed himself when he was a kid and his step father was an abusive alcoholic. His mother was a drug addict who neglected him, and his grand parents were awful to him as well. He got arrested for killing his baby sister. So yes parents do have an effect on their kids. So what happens when the parents don't care enough about what their kids are doing. Then what is a kid in that situation to do?

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5) Fuck that Be A Star shit. It worked just as much as D.A.R.E. did back in the 90s. If anything, it made the epidemic grow. And yeah, authority figures should step in.
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Problem is, you shouldn't expect all bystanders to feel the urge to respond or get help. It all comes from within
.
I don't expect all bystanders to get involved. But The issue would be a lot easier if people weren't so self concerned. It's purely up to the individual, if they don't want to do anything, then fair enough. But don't turn around, and say something like "Oh this kid's a pussie because he allowed himself to get bullied and did nothing about it" when there's more to the matter then just that. Like I said before, not all kid/teens are macho men with a black belt in kickboxing.

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6) Victim doesn't have to physically do something. The shit that pisses me off is that it's okay for the victim to remain defenseless and not do shit but if an innocent bystander looks the other way or ignores it, they're made out to be bad people.
I already made my point in the above comment. I'm just highlighting the fact that the people who ignore the issue altogether are allowing it to happen even more.

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8) Because a disabled kid can't do shit. But this healthy bastard down the street can but chooses not to because he's scared. Thats his fault he can't overcome his emotions. It's not the disabled kids fault he has down syndrome or had to have his head shaved because he got lung cancer at fucking 11. These is all incidents my closest friends have been through so I'm more inclined to do that because I've done it before. Disabled people can't retaliate, that little punk ass down the street can but he won't. You don't know how bad that kid in a wheel chair wants to be in Lil Jimmy position, simply because Jimmy is able and his fear is what disables him.
You seem to believe that a healthy kid can just automatically let go of his/her emotions. When i've already said it's not that easy. Everyone has emotions, people feel sad, happy, scared etc. It's part of being human, so for someone like you to say, "This kids a pussie" because he's scared of getting his ass kicked. Well nobody wants to get their ass kicked right, and if you have a group of about 3 or 4 guys picking on you and beating you up. It's not so easy to be able to say that. Long story short, I don't feel it is imperative for a kid to not be scared and deal with the issue. It would be nice if more kids did self defense classes or something. But not every kid is going to be like that. Some kids are not the physical type. Is it their fault? Not so much, as it could be something to do with their personality, and you can't help that. You can't expect everyone to be like you.

Quote:
You ever had a best friend with lung cancer at 11, who other kids made fun of because he had a shaved head? Did you and the rest of the kids in the neighborhood shave your heads in support of him? Did you go to school and have confrontations almost on a daily basis because of the teasing he endured, due to something he could not prevent? Don't compare a weak ass kid with a confidence disability to a person with an actual disability that limits movement, learning and other basic aspects of life that Lil Jimmy has. And for the record, they're not the same thing.
What are you on about? You said you would help a disabled kid, but when it comes to a healthy kid, it's up to the parents. So where are the parents when it comes to the disabled kid? It is very much the same thing, because you're discriminating. I admit, that a person with an actual disability is a high priority. But that doesn't mean a person who doesn't have a disability shouldn't be thought of even less. A confidence disability is still be a problem, not a major disability but it's a problem worth looking into without turning your nose up.

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9) As far as Amanda Todd go, you're trying to make excuses for her, otherwise, you wouldn't have commented. Don't make an excuse, it's obvious that technology, social media and lack of parental involvement lead to what happened to her. But, I know 1 thing. I didn't have a cell phone at 15, didn't have my own computer and was still a virgin.
I commented slightly on the Amanda Todd issue before to raise a point. That kids naturally try to do things behind a parents back. I almost fucked up my computer once when I was 15, for looking up porn. My parents trust me an awful lot so it's not an issue that it was a lack of parenting involved, it was me being a sneaky cunt when they were out one day. But my point is, it's not always the parents problem. In this circumstance, Amanda Todd was old enough to go on a computer, and use a phone, and 15 is old enough to have one, as far as i'm concerned. Whatever she did is her own fault. But to outright blame parenting as the main reason. Well I'm afraid more research is needed for that type of assumption.

Quote:
Bottom line, don't get mad at the world for not helping. Kids are too sensitive these days. And parents are too out of touch. And people like you feel that people like me MUST do something to prevent it from happening. It's not a preventable situation because somewhere, right now, somebody is getting bullied.
I don't think people like you need to do anything, but at least show a bit of respect and understanding to the issue. Don't just brush it off, as strong vs weak, survival of the fittest type thing.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:14 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

So, you say it's not the victims problem, not the bully's problem and not the parents problem. Are you trying to throw off some bullshit excuse as this being the fault of innocent bystanders?
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:19 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

To suggest bullying can be eradicated is naive but we could certainly start by raising more tolerant/stronger kids.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
So, you say it's not the victims problem, not the bully's problem and not the parents problem. Are you trying to throw off some bullshit excuse as this being the fault of innocent bystanders?
It's simply a problem. victim, parent, bully, bystander, whatever. I've already explained my points so there's not much point in referencing them again.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:29 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Highschool students bully disabled woman offstage

Again, I don't need the accomplishment under my belt of saying "I told on a bully", especially by going out of my way to defuse a situation that could have been prevented by those involved and around the matter.

But, there is absolutely no way that you can sit here & tell me that it doesn't begin with the parenting. It's their job to raise their kids, not mine to be their hero. Especially when 1 is physically capable to stand up for themselves or alert those closest to them about the incident and not live off the false hope that they will always have that innocent bystander, with no relevancy to the situation, to step in.
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