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Old 09-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
"There's no compulsion in religion" means that Muslims have no right to force non-believers to be muslim, because they're human just like them, they can't judge them, but the god has all the rights to judge them and punish them and put them to hell, because he is the one who created them and gave them everything they need to live, so they have to believe in him.
So muslims have every right to preach you, and lead you to the right way, and tell you to follow the right way and avoid the wrong way and tell you that if you don't believe in god you'll go to hell, and the god will punish you, but it's not them who punish you and put you to hell if you didn't believe in god, and they don't have the right to do so, but the god can do anything he wants to you.
I don't see where's the conclusion here.
I hope that I made myself clear.
So you believe your god is loving, merciful and forgiving yet he'd send people to hell simply for not believing he exists?

Lets assume I gave you a letter,And in that letter it said "We are the pink fairies who created the world and we live in your backyard,Worship us even though you can't see us so we can get you into heaven -- Signed the pink fairies".You will not believe me right? Lets assume the fairies were real does that mean you suddenly deserve punishment in a place like hell forever? Fuck no it just means you were wrong about them.

The entire concept of hell for simply not believing in complete utter bollocks and is anything BUT justice,And don't give me that "some people knew hell is real but didn't care" because NOBODY doesn't care about not going to hell forever and if they don't care they are mentally insane,Is your forgiving god sending insane people to hell? How very just.

Also,You muslims can preach islam all you want I'm down witt that I'm all for free speech but don't complain when non muslims criticize islam and speak against it.Also why is it not allowed for non muslims to speak against islam in muslim nations? Lets face it,Muslims think they're right and non muslims think they're right so we should allot BOTH to speack against each other.That means you muslims stop fucking picking on ex muslims that you kill and bully in the muslim nations.

I'm not suggesting war,But if you have the right to preach your disgusting cult non muslims have the right to speak against islam too.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:10 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

Muslims need to chill the fudge out & quit playing the victim all the time
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:16 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
So you believe your god is loving, merciful and forgiving yet he'd send people to hell simply for not believing he exists?

Lets assume I gave you a letter,And in that letter it said "We are the pink fairies who created the world and we live in your backyard,Worship us even though you can't see us so we can get you into heaven -- Signed the pink fairies".You will not believe me right? Lets assume the fairies were real does that mean you suddenly deserve punishment in a place like hell forever? Fuck no it just means you were wrong about them.

The entire concept of hell for simply not believing in complete utter bollocks and is anything BUT justice,And don't give me that "some people knew hell is real but didn't care" because NOBODY doesn't care about not going to hell forever and if they don't care they are mentally insane,Is your forgiving god sending insane people to hell? How very just.

Also,You muslims can preach islam all you want I'm down witt that I'm all for free speech but don't complain when non muslims criticize islam and speak against it.Also why is it not allowed for non muslims to speak against islam in muslim nations? Lets face it,Muslims think they're right and non muslims think they're right so we should allot BOTH to speack against each other.That means you muslims stop fucking picking on ex muslims that you kill and bully in the muslim nations.

I'm not suggesting war,But if you have the right to preach your disgusting cult non muslims have the right to speak against islam too.
My god is loving, merciful and forgiving, yes, I proudly believe in this, when the god says he'll forgive us, he doesn't mean he'll forgive everyone, he means he'll forgive the ones who were non-believers at one point in their life and then they believed in god and prophet Mohammad, so the god forgive them for their past when they where non-believers, get your fact straight please.
And why should the god forgive the ones who never believed in him even after they died? The god created you and me, and he has the right upon you, you're nothing but a tool for the god, he has the right to kill you, send you to heaven, or to hell as he wants, at least he's sending the ones who believe him to heaven and that's grace and mercy, we should thank him for that, because the god simply doesn't need our worshiping for him and believing in him, but we do.
And you're talking about justice, do you think it's fair that the non-believers and believers to go to the same place and have the same treatment? while the one opened his heart and did what the god asked him to do and remained loyal to him, while the other just ignored what the god wants and disrespected him, The Quran says that the god is merciful for the ones who believe him, but it also says that he'll punish the ones who don't, it says the god loves the believers and hate the non-believers.
I believe in Islam because The Quran gave me many evidences to do so, The Quran is miracle, every time I read it I discover new things, and it also strengthens my believe to god and Islam. Beside I believe in god because I have personal experiences, and I always gonna remember that the god helped me so many times, even though if I wasn't expecting to succeed in something the god helped me to succeed, only because I asked him to help me. Can the pink fairies you're talking about do that? Why should I believe in pink fairies while The Quran tells me that the Islam is the last religion? Not to mention all the evidences that made me to believe in it.
Why do you think all god religions are similar at some point? Why do you think that both the Christianity and Islam have the same stories about prophets before Mohammad and the way the world created with slight differences in some points? these things makes me believe that the god exists and that the islam is a real religion.
And if you really care not to go to hell, you would simply believe in god, why the god should send you to heaven instead of the hell while you simply didn't believe in him when he asked you to do so? The god doesn't need you, you need him.
You say what if the god doesn't exists, I say(even though that I'm sure he exists) what if he really exists? what if he sends you to hell after you die because you didn't believe him? What if it's all what Quran says is the truth? Are you willing to take the punishment because simply you're feeling that you don't need to believe in god? Everyone sometimes doubts about the god's existent, but you can remove that by praying and reading the truth in Quran, and fearing the punishment of the hell if you didn't believe in god.
So if you don't believe in god, why you're so afraid from the hell, if you don't believe in god, that means you don't believe in hell either, so why is the fear.
Sorry for the long post, I'm trying to be clear as I can.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:03 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

Oh god. This will end well.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:34 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

Religion: the root of all the world's problems.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:19 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

Most problems in the world have more to do with money and greed. Religion is just an easy justification and a nice smokescreen.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:49 AM   #157 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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How is this any different than someone who denies the Holocaust, which is a crime punishable in many places throughout the world?
I disagree with Holocaust laws. No one should be jailed for having an opinion however unpopular. I do think Holocaust deniers are idiots btw. But are you actually comparing Holocaust denial to criticizing a religion? Are you actually comparing denying historical events about the mass murder of millions of people to me explaining why I think religion is bullshit? Get real.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:40 AM   #158 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
My god is loving, merciful and forgiving, yes, I proudly believe in this, when the god says he'll forgive us, he doesn't mean he'll forgive everyone, he means he'll forgive the ones who were non-believers at one point in their life and then they believed in god and prophet Mohammad, so the god forgive them for their past when they where non-believers, get your fact straight please.
So essentially anyone else is fucked simply for not believing in your god? Lets go with some facts here; most religious people are members of a specific religion due to the fact that the area they live in widely practices that religion; so to your point anyone who lives in an area outside of the islamic faith is by default screwed for eternity? I mean after all how could these people have known about Islam if they were never exposed to it and because of their birth they go to hell. That's not very merciful; in fact that's downright sadistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
And why should the god forgive the ones who never believed in him even after they died?
Lack of empirical proof, numerous other groups claiming the same thing, some people won't have actually have heard of the religion.

And lets not forget the young and the disabled too. All these people according to you; deserve eternal punishment.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
The god created you and me, and he has the right upon you, you're nothing but a tool for the god, he has the right to kill you, send you to heaven, or to hell as he wants, at least he's sending the ones who believe him to heaven and that's grace and mercy, we should thank him for that, because the god simply doesn't need our worshiping for him and believing in him, but we do.
I don't think you understand the word mercy. I mean for starters if the ones who believe in him are going then how is that merciful? You've fitted the criteria; if a police officer lets you off with a warning for something you did; that's merciful; a police officer not arresting you because you haven't broken the law isn't a form of mercy.

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And you're talking about justice, do you think it's fair that the non-believers and believers to go to the same place and have the same treatment?
Yes.
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while the one opened his heart and did what the god asked him to do and remained loyal to him, while the other just ignored what the god wants and disrespected him, The Quran says that the god is merciful for the ones who believe him, but it also says that he'll punish the ones who don't, it says the god loves the believers and hate the non-believers.
Once again that isn't mercy. Also do you not see the contradiction by stating your God is just? If your God is truly just then any mercy given would directly contradict that. Complete 100% being just and any mercy do are a complete contradiction.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
I believe in Islam because The Quran gave me many evidences to do so,The Quran is miracle, every time I read it I discover new things, and it also strengthens my believe to god and Islam.
If you're discovering new things by reading the same book over and over again; it sounds like you never read it carefully in the first place.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Beside I believe in god because I have personal experiences, and I always gonna remember that the god helped me so many times, even though if I wasn't expecting to succeed in something the god helped me to succeed, only because I asked him to help me. Can the pink fairies you're talking about do that?
Why yes actually; I have had many personal experiences with pink fairies who helped me out many times when I needed it. I asked Tinkerbell to help and she did; and for that she exists!
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Why should I believe in pink fairies while The Quran tells me that the Islam is the last religion?
Why should you believe what the Quran says over any other book?
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Not to mention all the evidences that made me to believe in it.
Please start using the term "evidence" not "evidences". It's just bad to read.

Anyway lots of people think things are evidence when in reality they aren't/
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Why do you think all god religions are similar at some point?
I call this the squint eye reasoning. Basically everything is similar when you squint your eyes; there's a reason for that because you aren't looking at things correctly. Many religions have similar practices but Islam is similar to christianity because both along with Judaism are the abrahamic religions. Tell me what of Hinduism or paganism? They don't believe in the same prophets; in fact many of the prophets of the abrahamic religions seem like reworded versions of the pagan prophets (e.g. Mithras and Jesus).
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Why do you think that both the Christianity and Islam have the same stories about prophets before Mohammad and the way the world created with slight differences in some points? these things makes me believe that the god exists and that the islam is a real religion.
That's a really bad reason.

I mean for starters we know for a fact that the creation stories of these religions aren't true; just because a group of people say something doesn't make it correct. If that were the case the world would be flat.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
And if you really care not to go to hell, you would simply believe in god, why the god should send you to heaven instead of the hell while you simply didn't believe in him when he asked you to do so?
Pascals Wager.
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The god doesn't need you, you need him.
No I don't need a deity; I mean really I don't. I get on with my life just fine without one.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
You say what if the god doesn't exists, I say(even though that I'm sure he exists) what if he really exists?
So you avoid the question in other words?
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
what if he sends you to hell after you die because you didn't believe him?
Oh well then. I accept it; but it still won't make what the God did Just.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
What if it's all what Quran says is the truth?
Well currently we know that's not true. Sure we don't know everything it claims if true or not; but things like the creation story we know are wrong.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Are you willing to take the punishment because simply you're feeling that you don't need to believe in god?
Yes as are you with every other religion out there. And any other hypothetical situation anyone creates.
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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
Everyone sometimes doubts about the god's existent, but you can remove that by praying and reading the truth in Quran, and fearing the punishment of the hell if you didn't believe in god.
Fear seens like a great tool to overlook common sense.

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Originally Posted by moon25 View Post
So if you don't believe in god, why you're so afraid from the hell,
I'm not. Tell me if you don't believe in Zeus why are you so afraid of the river stix? Or if you don't believe in skippy the invisible panda then why are you so afraid of the bamboo prison created at the edge of space and time?
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if you don't believe in god, that means you don't believe in hell either, so why is the fear.
Sorry for the long post, I'm trying to be clear as I can.
There isn't. The problem here is you struggle to comprehend how someone can not believe in hell. Sure you fear hell because you believe in it; but people like myself don't. I don't fear hell the same way you don't fear the bamboo prison.

To make this completely clear. You're attaching your fear of hell on to others because it's something you are afraid of and you think that everyone else has the same fear; but they don't. You're generalising people.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:34 AM   #159 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
I disagree with Holocaust laws. No one should be jailed for having an opinion however unpopular. I do think Holocaust deniers are idiots btw. But are you actually comparing Holocaust denial to criticizing a religion? Are you actually comparing denying historical events about the mass murder of millions of people to me explaining why I think religion is bullshit? Get real.
People are sensetive as fuck these days, start rioting at the littlest things.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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So essentially anyone else is fucked simply for not believing in your god? Lets go with some facts here; most religious people are members of a specific religion due to the fact that the area they live in widely practices that religion; so to your point anyone who lives in an area outside of the islamic faith is by default screwed for eternity? I mean after all how could these people have known about Islam if they were never exposed to it and because of their birth they go to hell. That's not very merciful; in fact that's downright sadistic.
There's technology nowadays, so I don't think anyone has an excuse to not believe in god or Islam, I don't think there's anyone who haven't heard about Islam or even other religions nowadays. As for those who lived in the past, god sent deferent prophets to deferent areas to preach the people who live in that area to believe in god, if they didn't believe they go to hell, because they knew it and didn't believe it. And for those who never heard about god and no one preached them to do so, then(I think) the god will forgive them, because they had no chance to know it, and the god mentions many times in Quran that he's merciful.

Quote:
Lack of empirical proof, numerous other groups claiming the same thing, some people won't have actually have heard of the religion.
If you ever read Quran and UNDERSTAND it you'll know the proof, I heard some scientist already turned into Muslims after they discovered things in their experiences already exists in Quran, beside religion is a matter of faith, what if the god really exists and you didn't believe in him?
Other claim the same thing, but Islam already believes in Christianity and Judaism, we already know that they were religions before Islam, Judaism before Christianity, and Christianity before Islam, but life changed and the god decided to send Jesus to people to teach them slightly different rules according to different circumstances but to preach them to believe in the same god, then after many years life also changed, god sent Mohammad to people to teach them slightly different rules fits the recent circumstances in the world right now. nowadays, Jews don't believe in Christianity, and Christians don't believe in Islams, see? It's the same thing here. All those three religions are similar to each other with slight differences because of different circumstances and different times. Islam doesn't believe in other religions but these two, and these two religions past their prime.
Quote:
And lets not forget the young and the disabled too. All these people according to you; deserve eternal punishment.
The god already tells in Quran that he will forgive the disable ones and young kids who haven't reached an age that they understand what they're doing numerous times, this also includes crazy ones if that what you mean by disabled.

Quote:
I don't think you understand the word mercy. I mean for starters if the ones who believe in him are going then how is that merciful? You've fitted the criteria; if a police officer lets you off with a warning for something you did; that's merciful; a police officer not arresting you because you haven't broken the law isn't a form of mercy.
The god says he's merciful, because if I did a sin while I believe in him, and then I prayed to him and asked him to forgive me, then he'll forgive me, also if I was non-believer and did bad things in my early life then I became believer and repented and stayed away from doing bad things, he'll forgive me, and that's mercy, but if I don't believe in him at all and never believed in him for the rest of my life, and continued to do bad things, why should he forgive me? he doesn't need me, I need him. Same thing with the police officer, if you broke a rule in simple thing(not murdering or stealing) then he will forgive you, but there's no chance he won't arrest you if you stole something or murdered somebody.
Quote:
Yes.
Well, I don't thing it's fair, do you also think that the murder shouldn't be punished? Do you think that the thief shouldn't go to jail. Hell, do you think that someone who works his ass off to gain some money deserves the same treatment as someone steals that money? I mean you think both of them should go to jail, or both of them should be released? Without judgement everything will be a mess.
Quote:
Once again that isn't mercy. Also do you not see the contradiction by stating your God is just? If your God is truly just then any mercy given would directly contradict that. Complete 100% being just and any mercy do are a complete contradiction.
But, the human beings always commits sins no matter how hard they try not to do so, even if someone was very faithful, he will commit sins no matter how small that sin is, so you say th god shouldn't forgive them because they happened to do something wrong? The god is just because he'll send his believers to heaven, and his non-believers to hell, and he's merciful because he'll forgive his believers for small sins they do, and also forgives his non-believers if they believed in him.
Quote:
If you're discovering new things by reading the same book over and over again; it sounds like you never read it carefully in the first place.
The Quran is like a sea of knowledge, it's not really easy to understand as you think so even if you know arabic, there's obvious things in it you can easily understand, but there's also things you can't understand if you didn't pay attention to it, Quran is not an easy book, that's why there's many people study it instead of just reading. I know the basic things in Islam, but there's also rules you can't know it until you study Islamic law.
Quote:
Why yes actually; I have had many personal experiences with pink fairies who helped me out many times when I needed it. I asked Tinkerbell to help and she did; and for that she exists!
What you're talking about was coincidence or something would likely happen, but mine wasn't coincidence and there's no chance it will be coincidence, many times god didn't help me, because I didn't ask him, but if I asked him-even in difficult situations he helped me, and trust me it wasn't coincidence.
Quote:
Why should you believe what the Quran says over any other book?
Because it's the truth, and many things in it has been proven.
Quote:
Please start using the term "evidence" not "evidences". It's just bad to read.

Anyway lots of people think things are evidence when in reality they aren't/
Then they don't understand what evidence means.
Quote:
I call this the squint eye reasoning. Basically everything is similar when you squint your eyes; there's a reason for that because you aren't looking at things correctly. Many religions have similar practices but Islam is similar to christianity because both along with Judaism are the abrahamic religions. Tell me what of Hinduism or paganism? They don't believe in the same prophets; in fact many of the prophets of the abrahamic religions seem like reworded versions of the pagan prophets (e.g. Mithras and Jesus).
Hinduism and paganism don't believe in god, so they're in fact not religions, there's a lot of people who don't believe in god, or worship some animal like cow or sun(if I know correctly) or anything, there's no similarity here, there's alot of people do that, and doesn't makes sense that a cow has created all this world.(I don't really know what they believe, so I can't say anything else).
Quote:
That's a really bad reason.

I mean for starters we know for a fact that the creation stories of these religions aren't true; just because a group of people say something doesn't make it correct. If that were the case the world would be flat.
As I said, religion is a matter of faith.
And I'm really curious to know how do you think the world has been created, and do you think this world ever ends some day? What do you think will happen to you after you die? Also what religion do you believe? And what if what Islam says is the truth and you didn't believed it, are you willing to take the punishment for that?
Quote:
Pascals Wager.
I really don't understand this sorry, maybe because of my limited English.
Quote:
No I don't need a deity; I mean really I don't. I get on with my life just fine without one.
Then, that means you're okay with going to hell, and take the punishment, why do you ask for mercy then?
Quote:
So you avoid the question in other words?
Okay, the god does exists and I fully believe in that, but to answer the question: If the god doesn't exist, then it doesn't harm me if I worshiped him, nor I lose something, but I gain something because it keeps me away from doing bad things, and also makes my life better.
Quote:
Oh well then. I accept it; but it still won't make what the God did Just.
Cool, but if so how he is not doing just? he sent you to hell because you didn't believe in him, he already said that he'll send you to hell if you didn't believe in him.
Quote:
Well currently we know that's not true. Sure we don't know everything it claims if true or not; but things like the creation story we know are wrong.
It's wrong for you, but I believe every thing on it and I thing it's the truth.
As I said, I'd like to hear how do you think the world exists.
Quote:
Yes as are you with every other religion out there. And any other hypothetical situation anyone creates.
Well, I have nothing to say about this.
Quote:
Fear seens like a great tool to overlook common sense.
But I think that the common sense is that the god exists, it's only some questions about how big this world and other things that we don't know about, and the Quran didn't tell us, the god already says in Quran that there are somethings I'll let you to know, and somethings I'll keep it secret from you in this world, but we'll get our answer in the other world.
Also, I'm sure you ask yourself these questions too.
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I'm not. Tell me if you don't believe in Zeus why are you so afraid of the river stix? Or if you don't believe in skippy the invisible panda then why are you so afraid of the bamboo prison created at the edge of space and time?
I don't know what river stix means or bamboo prison are, but I'm not afraid from them.(I would like you to explain more what they are so my answer would be better).
But I sorta get it, you mean when someone creates a story like if you don't do this something bad will happen to you. Well, I have been through those experiences before, and anything outside of what my religion believes I haven't been afraid of, because I fully trust what Quran says, and I have no doubt about anything it contains, because I know it's the truth, but it seems you have doubt about what you believe.
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There isn't. The problem here is you struggle to comprehend how someone can not believe in hell. Sure you fear hell because you believe in it; but people like myself don't. I don't fear hell the same way you don't fear the bamboo prison.

To make this completely clear. You're attaching your fear of hell on to others because it's something you are afraid of and you think that everyone else has the same fear; but they don't. You're generalising people.
Fair enough, then you shouldn't be afraid of it.
But this post you quoted was a reply to someone who asked why should he go to hell while he isn't believing in god, so I answered.

Last edited by moon25 : 09-26-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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