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Old 09-16-2012, 05:13 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

If someone's posing as one of your men during war i'm pretty sure it's not a stretch to act violently on them.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:15 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post

Also, because you didn't know it, the ayah says "There is no compulsion in religion."
I actually have a problem with this verse because it's technically a contradiction. If you read the next verses, it states unbelievers will burn in hell. Surely that is compulsion in religion? That's like saying "I won't force you to convert but you will later burn in hell". This applies to most religions, not just Islam. If there is an explanation to this then I'd like to hear it because I may be wrong about this.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:22 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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I actually have a problem with this verse because it's technically a contradiction. If you read the next verses, it states unbelievers will burn in hell. Surely that is compulsion in religion? That's like saying "I won't force you to convert but you will later burn in hell". This applies to most religions, not just Islam. If there is an explanation to this then I'd like to hear it because I may be wrong about this.
Not exactly, if a person lacks faith, unless he keeps an open mind he will still lack faith, despite how many warnings that person gets. It's the same thing with criminals, they know the crimes they commit will result in punishment, but they do it anyway, right? Compulsion refers to making someone profess their faith even when they don't believe it with their hearts. If I were to hold a gun to your head and tell you to declare that you believe in Islam, that would be compulsion which is forbidden, considering that the person will still not believe in it inside, despite saying they do.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:37 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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I would argue that if someone was threatening my family and was probably going to kill them, I would kill them before they got to me. If you feel differently, so be it. That particular hadith applied to that time period, not necessarily in circumstances where the muslim ummah was not in danger. You are hotheaded and eager to be ignorant, which is probably why you left Islam in the first place. You may have done the rituals, but I doubt you tried to live every aspect of your life as a Muslim. There is a lot more to Islam than you think, and there is much you don't know. Just because you know arabic doesn;t make you a knowledgeable Muslim.

Also, because you didn't know it, the ayah says "There is no compulsion in religion."
Bullshit,Being an ex muslim does not mean I threaten your life it only means I may threaten your religion and mock it and show its errors.Also you have no evidence the hadith stated this only for "this time period" you're lying to yourself and sugar coating what is a pile of filth that is your cult.

I'm not hotheaded really and nobody is eager to be ignorant,You're getting all this talk right out of a boar's asshole.When I was muslim I was very religious and would defend attacks on islam by non muslims,You don't even know me.

Almost everything about islam is horrible,The stoning of innocents like homosexuals or the discrimination of women or the violent verses of hate and fear.And just so you know,No loving forgiving god would EVER create a concept like hell.

"There is no compulsion in religion." You expect me to believe that? As far as I can see religion is FILLED with compulsion.

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If someone's posing as one of your men during war i'm pretty sure it's not a stretch to act violently on them.
I'm pretending to be muslim right now to the muslims around me and I'm an atheist,I also am not a nationalist and don't care about my country and would prefer to serve and live in another more succesful nation.You think its ok to kill me?
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post
Not exactly, if a person lacks faith, unless he keeps an open mind he will still lack faith, despite how many warnings that person gets. It's the same thing with criminals, they know the crimes they commit will result in punishment, but they do it anyway, right? Compulsion refers to making someone profess their faith even when they don't believe it with their hearts. If I were to hold a gun to your head and tell you to declare that you believe in Islam, that would be compulsion which is forbidden, considering that the person will still not believe in it inside, despite saying they do.
Right. My only problem with that is that what if an Atheist truly believes there is no god and all evidence has convinced him to believe that. How is it fair that he is still going to hell? Quran does say that humans are given an open mind and they should research and debate these issues but I don't understand why religion still teaches unbelievers will go to hell just for not believing. It's basically compulsion. "If you don't believe then you will eventually go to hell and burn forever", just seems harsh IMO.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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I'm pretending to be muslim right now to the muslims around me and I'm an atheist,I also am not a nationalist and don't care about my country and would prefer to serve and live in another more succesful nation.You think its ok to kill me?
You do know I said during war right? Or are you dis-regarding that along with most everything else you disregard or conveniently leave out.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:54 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
Bullshit,Being an ex muslim does not mean I threaten your life it only means I may threaten your religion and mock it and show its errors.Also you have no evidence the hadith stated this only for "this time period" you're lying to yourself and sugar coating what is a pile of filth that is your cult.

I'm not hotheaded really and nobody is eager to be ignorant,You're getting all this talk right out of a boar's asshole.When I was muslim I was very religious and would defend attacks on islam by non muslims,You don't even know me.
The evidence I have is the knowledge I have learned from scholars and from reading on the history of Muhammad SAW. That is what I mean by understanding the MEANING of Qur'an and Sunnah. Some of the verses in the Qur'an and some of the ahadith cannot be fully understood without STUDYING them and knowing what they mean in context to the time period and circumstances surrounding them. Allah revealed ayahs to Muhammad according to certain times and certain events, to guide the Muslims. Which is why it is critical to know when these verses and hadith were revealed, contrary to what you believe. THAT is what I mean when I ask if you understand the meaning of the Qur'an. You really don't, man.

You're not hotheaded? Is that why you called my religion a "cult" and a "pile of filth" among many other derogatory things? You say you were religious; did you use terms like "boars asshole" and did you curse incessantly while you were Muslim as well? Maybe that is also a reason why you left islam; because you refuse to have proper akhlaq?

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Right. My only problem with that is that what if an Atheist truly believes there is no god and all evidence has convinced him to believe that. How is it fair that he is still going to hell? Quran does say that humans are given an open mind and they should research and debate these issues but I don't understand why religion still teaches unbelievers will go to hell just for not believing. It's basically compulsion. "If you don't believe then you will eventually go to hell and burn forever", just seems harsh IMO.
With all due respect, a person like that does not believe in Islam because he is not keeping an open mind. Simple. There is no concrete evidence pointing to the lack of a God. We believe that if somebody genuinely wants to learn about Islam and its teachings, he will in all likelihood accept Islam, as was the case with many, many people, back then when Islam was being revealed and even nowadays. If not, who knows? Allah might forgive that person because he tried his best to learn about Islam.

You're omitting the fact that the Qur'an doesn't only discuss Allah's punishment. It also describes in countless verses, Paradise. It describes in beautiful detail what Paradise will look like, what it will hold for a Muslim. Allah also promises in the Qur'an that his forgiveness will always be available to someone until the day the person dies. Allah says time and time again that His Mercy outweighs His Wrath. And it is true. However, people choose to focus on His Punishment and then assume all Allah has for himself is His Wrath and is a merciless Being.

The fact that he even tells us what will happen if we do not believe is part of His Mercy, if you think about it. What if He just didn't say what was going to happen if we disobeyed Him? We would do whatever we wanted, no matter how bad it would be, and wouldn't have any idea of what the consequences are. It would be unjust. It's not harsh, and it's not compulsion, it's just laying out what exactly will happen. I'm sure you don't believe a set of laws in a state or country is compulsion; so why would this? I hope you understand what I'm saying here.

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Old 09-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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You do know I said during war right? Or are you dis-regarding that along with most everything else you disregard or conveniently leave out.
I'm not disregarding anything,Want me to make things simpler to you? If my country were to go to war with Israel like it has in the past and I somehow think its Israel who are on the right side I'd defend Israel and refuse to fight.I don't believe in nationalism and think patriotism is fucking retarded.Get the picture yet or do you still not understand?

Also,Islam is at war in with free thought and criticism worldwide and I'm siding against islam and on the top of all that I used to be muslim.I support things like draw mohammed day and I mock islam daily,You with me here or do you still think I'm "disregarding" anything? Hmmm?
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:15 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post

With all due respect, a person like that does not believe in Islam because he is not keeping an open mind. Simple. There is no concrete evidence pointing to the lack of a God. We believe that if somebody genuinely wants to learn about Islam and its teachings, he will in all likelihood accept Islam, as was the case with many, many people, back then when Islam was being revealed and even nowadays. If not, who knows? Allah might forgive that person because he tried his best to learn about Islam.
I respectively disagree. I do know some people that have researched on Islam but have come to the conclusion that it isn't god's religion. There are also those who leave Islam after so many years as Muslims. Of course, we don't know if they were strong Muslims but it just shows that Muslims can't all be grounded to their faith.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:18 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Innocence of Muslims

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The evidence I have is the knowledge I have learned from scholars and from reading on the history of Muhammad SAW.
Give me solid evidence otherwise everything you just said is complete horseshit.

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post
You're not hotheaded? Is that why you called my religion a "cult" and a "pile of filth" among many other derogatory things? You say you were religious; did you use terms like "boars asshole" and did you curse incessantly while you were Muslim as well? Maybe that is also a reason why you left islam; because you refuse to have proper akhlaq?
cult/kəlt/
Noun:
A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.


You see that? That is islam.

I called islam a cult because it IS a cult.Pile of filth? Why thats just an understanding islam is almost all the insults I can dish out.When I was religious I did not swear,However I did change and I learned swearing is a taboo for very silly reasons.How dare you say I don't have akhlaq? To you only muslims have proper akhlaq,To you a girl who shows her body is "bad" because she wants to show off her body.I'm a man and I like to make sure women look at me and check me out does that make me bad? Hell no it just means I want people to be attracted to me and everyone is like this.You don't even know what real akhlaq is you're just mindlessly following islam without any critical thought.

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post
a person like that does not believe in Islam because he is not keeping an open mind. Simple. There is no concrete evidence pointing to the lack of a God.
There is no evidence islam is a the real religion sent from "god" either sweetheart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post
The fact that he even tells us what will happen if we do not believe is part of His Mercy, if you think about it. What if He just didn't say what was going to happen if we disobeyed Him? We would do whatever we wanted, no matter how bad it would be, and wouldn't have any idea of what the consequences are.
Your god sounds like a bully who wants attention,Period.

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Originally Posted by SummerLove View Post
It also describes in countless verses, Paradise. It describes in beautiful detail what Paradise will look like, what it will hold for a Muslim.
I don't care.
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