[Rajah]

Try bent rows with a reverse grip. Dorian Yates used them for years and he had one of the best backs ever.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by austinrockera

Flex, question for the CPT:

I am a little lacking in my lower lats as well as back depth (that thick deep 3D look you can get in your back) My back is pretty wide overall, I just want to polish it up some.

What do you recommend? I've read that underhanded just about everything works the lower back. Is that right?

My back workouts are pretty crazy... here's what I did last week:

not including the warm up set that I do before every exercise. All increasing in weight every set.
4 x 12 bent rows regular grip
4 x 12,10,8,8 dead lifts
4 x 12 lat pulldowns wide grip
4 x 12 seated rows close grip with a drop set for the 5th set (10,10,10,12 of 180, 140, 120, 100lbs) with a spotter to change the pin so I don't really stop.
4 x 10 DB rows
4 x 15 lat pull over (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...rPullover.html)

all that in 1 hour.

This may sound a bit different than what you're used to hearing but I honestly believe BB Rows are the king of lat development. Here's what I'd recommend when rowing:

1. Row a little lower to naval level. Rowing low will prevent using arm flexion as well.
2. You don't have to extend your arms completely. Yes, extend them as far as possible but you don't want your arms locked out. Locking the arms out takes tension off the lats.
3. Using a power tempo is much more beneficial than using a tension tempo here. Don't focus on going light and 'squeezing', it's not as efficient as using a power tempo.
4. You don't have to pull the bar to your torso but make sure you pull as close to it as you can get.
5. Momentum is useful in this movement.

Go heavy, cheat a little bit. Rows take awhile to get the full grasp of. I'm still trying to perfect it myself.

That looks like a little too much as far as a back workout goes. What's your split look like? I assume with all that volume/workload/intensity in one session that your back is worked only once a week, correct?

If you're looking for some thickness, I'd go with lower reps for some of the exercises.

Here's a sample back workout off the top of my head:

Chins (either hammer grip or close grip):
Body weight x 6-15 reps (4 sets)

Rack Pulls (setting @ mid shin):
3-5 reps (4 sets)

Chest Supported Row:
6-10 reps (3 sets)

BB Rows:
5 reps (3 sets)

Close Grip Seated Cable Row:
8-12 reps (3 sets)

The closed grip chins would really add some width to your lower lats. I'm a big fan of pre-exhaustion methods. The chins will really help your muscle-mind-connection when doing the rack pulls and should help you pull hard to your pelvic area with the rack pulls.

More than anything else, the close grip chins will help maintain that width that you're satisfied with. We're not looking to enhance your width (going off of what you said) so we'll try to maintain with the closed grip chins.

Judging by what you said, I'd feel this would be the best routine to help achieve your specific goals. You said you're happy with the width but are looking for a bit more detail/thickness (right? i'm not too sure what you mean by depth ~_~).

Heavy rack pulls, heavy barbell rows, and hammer strength chins are ideal for back thickness/detail. The chest supported rows and cable rows are just there to give you more volume as it seems like you feel you grow best with high volume.

Back and legs are the hardest body parts to develop. It's a craft more than anything else.

I need a little bit more info to appropriately design something for you but that routine should really help in the thickness department. I left the weight open to you and gave you some options as far as the rep range goes so I'll let you interpret it openly.

[austinrockera]

thanks for the info... 3d effect is more of seeing the separation/definition of the muscles if you were looking at me from behind. My back has always looked "flat" from the back.

I will try adding some weight to the BB rows and see how that works. I've kept to 10+ reps and tried to control it more. I will switch that up.

Never tried hammer chins, will give it a shot next week.

As far as my workout program, I am doing a 5 day split currently.

Chest + Abs
Back
Shoulders + Traps
Legs + Calves
Arms + Abs

I am lucky to get 5 days from my wife, hated doing arms with back and chest, didn't feel like I had enough time to work everything properly. I only get about 1 hour of actual working out each day.

Our gym is supposed to get the chest supp row plate loaded machine soon, so I will be on that.

thanks for your advice

[El Conquistador]

Let me know how it goes, bro. I do the hammer chins followed by rack pulls myself every two-three weeks along with BB Rows following shortly after the pulls. I personally love it and it's worked wonders for me so hopefully it can help beef you up a bit, too!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nppzGV1U8y8

I laughed.. Did you?

[Evidense]

Is there anyway for me to lose bodyfat and maintain or gain muscle in the process? I weigh 318 and would eventually like to settle down at 250, depending on my results maybe go lower (I'm 6'3). I have a good 70 pounds or so to go and I don't want to have a bunch of loose skin as a result of all the hard work. Right now at 318 my legs are muscular for a guy my size. Not just my calves but I used to work out 2 months ago and I ended up building up my quad muscles and now I still havedefinition in my thighs.

My main problem is my chest area and my stomach. My shoulders are kinda tight and I still can flex my trap muscles I made 2 months ago when I got my first gym membership. After the first month I got lazy and stopped going. Now after losing some muscle and watching my body degrade again I renewed my membership today and hope to go back tomorrow and do some cardio as a warm up.

I've always been a gym idiot kinda. I never touch the free weights only the weight machines and the treadmill. I don't know what will benefit me more should I do heavy weights and small reps (5-10) or light weights and heavy reps (15-20?).

Basically: Can I go from 318 to 250 and have muscle to show for it? If so should I be doing heavy weights and small reps or light weights and heavy reps?

[ViolenceIsGolden]

God you guys on this thread really know a lot about working out with weights. I just stick to lots of curls with a 25 pound dumb bell and one of those rubberband stretching things where I hold it in a curl postition using my foot for 5-10 seconds with all five bands attached. I do this quite a few times but I won't ever wear myself out with this because that's what the curls on the dumb bell are for. Every once in a while I lift on the bench at home but I don't have anybody to spot me so I have to be really careful. I usually go no more then 165 pounds because I like to be able to do more then one rep at a time.

My cousin is a legend in the gym or he calls himself one. He's not in good shape at all and is quite obese but he's huge. The guy lifts 300-400 pounds. The most he's ever was over 500. He makes jokes that if anybody else in his gym tried to do the weight he did they'd kill themselves immediately, the bar would drop on their throat. He's a funny guy.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Evidense

Is there anyway for me to lose bodyfat and maintain or gain muscle in the process? I weigh 318 and would eventually like to settle down at 250, depending on my results maybe go lower (I'm 6'3). I have a good 70 pounds or so to go and I don't want to have a bunch of loose skin as a result of all the hard work. Right now at 318 my legs are muscular for a guy my size. Not just my calves but I used to work out 2 months ago and I ended up building up my quad muscles and now I still havedefinition in my thighs.

My main problem is my chest area and my stomach. My shoulders are kinda tight and I still can flex my trap muscles I made 2 months ago when I got my first gym membership. After the first month I got lazy and stopped going. Now after losing some muscle and watching my body degrade again I renewed my membership today and hope to go back tomorrow and do some cardio as a warm up.

I've always been a gym idiot kinda. I never touch the free weights only the weight machines and the treadmill. I don't know what will benefit me more should I do heavy weights and small reps (5-10) or light weights and heavy reps (15-20?).

Basically: Can I go from 318 to 250 and have muscle to show for it? If so should I be doing heavy weights and small reps or light weights and heavy reps?

It's possible but very difficult to do so. Much like everyone else, you're looking for stability before fat loss which shouldn't be the priority. I don't have any pictures of you or any stats on you but I think it's fair to say you're a bit overweight if not obese.

It all starts with your diet. Like I tell my obese father (I harp on him all the time cause he's run into a bunch of health issues), you don't have to completely restructure your diet, you just need to rethink/revise your eating habits. You're not going to lose weight if you max on some fried food after a workout on the treadmill or hitting up a weight circuit.

Chances are you don't have any core strength at all so you shouldn't have to overload the core. Your priority should be to keep moving at a fast pace with high intensity. Focus on low back strength. Sissy squats or partial squats will engage the core well enough. People who are overweight have a lot more weight that they need to move around which takes a lot of core strength in its own right.

When overweight, it's ten times harder on the joints than a normal person. The first month or so may be difficult on the joints as you'll be subjected to joint injuries due to your lack of exercise lately.

Compound exercises will lead you to success. Just make sure you be safe with it and are cautious. I wouldn't want my advice to turn into an injury.

Diet is vital. Start with gradual exercises to get yourself moving while watching what you eat. I'm not saying starve yourself or don't treat yourself to a nice dinner with the family every once in awhile, just have some sense.

I'd give you more advice but frankly, I'm not getting payed for it .

Hope some of this knowledge helps..

Originally Posted by ViolenceIsGolden

God you guys on this thread really know a lot about working out with weights. I just stick to lots of curls with a 25 pound dumb bell and one of those rubberband stretching things where I hold it in a curl postition using my foot for 5-10 seconds with all five bands attached. I do this quite a few times but I won't ever wear myself out with this because that's what the curls on the dumb bell are for. Every once in a while I lift on the bench at home but I don't have anybody to spot me so I have to be really careful. I usually go no more then 165 pounds because I like to be able to do more then one rep at a time.

My cousin is a legend in the gym or he calls himself one. He's not in good shape at all and is quite obese but he's huge. The guy lifts 300-400 pounds. The most he's ever was over 500. He makes jokes that if anybody else in his gym tried to do the weight he did they'd kill themselves immediately, the bar would drop on their throat. He's a funny guy.

Lol. Sounds like a couple of guys I know. Ever wonder why there's weight classes in powerlifting? It's because a 155 lb guy can't and shouldn't be able to throw around the same weight as a 275 lb individual. Physics at its finest.

I wouldn't think too highly of an individual who is benching his bodyweight @ 300 lbs. I bench 2x my bodyweight but it may never be that amount of weight as we all have different body types, ya' know?

Surely would not look down on someone who thinks they're the shit like your cousin seems to believe, I'm certainly not implying that.

Fact of the matter is: hell yeah, 300-400 lbs is a lot of weight! I wouldn't look at him with pure amazement though.

[ViolenceIsGolden]

Originally Posted by Father Flex

Lol. Sounds like a couple of guys I know. Ever wonder why there's weight classes in powerlifting? It's because a 155 lb guy can't and shouldn't be able to throw around the same weight as a 275 lb individual. Physics at its finest.

I wouldn't think too highly of an individual who is benching his bodyweight @ 300 lbs. I bench 2x my bodyweight but it may never be that amount of weight as we all have different body types, ya' know?

Surely would not look down on someone who thinks they're the shit like your cousin seems to believe, I'm certainly not implying that.

Fact of the matter is: hell yeah, 300-400 lbs is a lot of weight! I wouldn't look at him with pure amazement though.

He's been working out for years. I understand a heavy person might be stronger then somebody my size. He's a little over 300 pounds. My dad used to be pushing 300 but lost a lot of weight. My dad never works out and lifts and would probably not be able to lift anywhere close what my cousin could because he has been doing it for so long. The guy is fat but his shoulders and arms, forearms are just plain huge. My grandpa always says the guys built like Ivan Putski. He's only about 5'6 or 5'7.

May I ask how much you lift?

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by ViolenceIsGolden

He's been working out for years. I understand a heavy person might be stronger then somebody my size. He's a little over 300 pounds. My dad used to be pushing 300 but lost a lot of weight. My dad never works out and lifts and would probably not be able to lift anywhere close what my cousin could because he has been doing it for so long. The guy is fat but his shoulders and arms, forearms are just plain huge. My grandpa always says the guys built like Ivan Putski. He's only about 5'6 or 5'7.

May I ask how much you lift?

Not trying to attack your cousin, bro (just so you know). That wasn't my attention if you think it was (not sure if you do or not). Last thing I want to do is dig into someone I don't know.

307 lb person pushing around 307 lbs on the bench press is equivalent to a 143 lb person bench pressing 143 lbs. They're both pressing 1x the amount of their body weight. One isn't stronger than the other. There's a HUGE difference between relative and absolute strength.

My lifts? I have no problem since you asked.

Deadlift 1RM: 425 lbs
Squat 1RM: 340 lbs
Bench 1RM: 255 lbs
Standing Strict Military Press 1RM: 185 lbs

Body weight anywhere between 174-183 lbs right now. I bulk in the winter and don't keep track of my weight. Probably about 9-12% body fat right now.

[Rajah]

I know Flex is a fan - Mariusz Pudzianowski beat Marcin Najman in his first fight. Pudzianowski won the fight in 0:44 in the first round by tap-out.