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post #1391 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 01:58 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Nobody in particular. And what are we arguing? You're just getting mad and I'm not sure why.

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post #1392 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 02:02 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

not mad man, just funny how people in here hate on my replies without even disputing the facts.

it's common sense, so if you're going to hate at least bring a damn argument to the table.

otherwise, just shut up.
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post #1393 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 02:29 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

I'll address your comment, but I'm not arguing this beyond this post. Also, this isn't all my personal opinion.

Quote:
You DO have to eat frequently and consume an adequate amount of calories to burn fat and add mass.
Yes, ejecting energy from fat is a more complex process than output minus input, but it is the most reasonable way of getting a quantitative measure on fat loss.

Quote:
To build muscle you gotta eat more calories than your body works off. Depending on what you're looking to do, you should realistically be eating 15-20 times your body weight in calories. You need a CALORIC SURPLUS.
What I'm getting from your posts is that you're saying that with a CALORIC SURPLUS, you can burn fat and build muscle.

Provided you subscribe to this theory, the corollary must also be accepted, i.e. you can burn fat and build muscle on a calorie deficit (as long as you're talking in general, not accounting for body types or lifestyles). If your theory is that the fat gain from a calorie surplus will be burned by growing muscles, then the basis behind this is that fat calories in the body can be used for muscle growth. It is only theory.

And if both those cases are applicable, then you have to accept that the middle ground is also true. That while on a calorie maintenance, you can burn fat and add muscle.

All three of those statements are applicable to different people, but is that really advice at all? I have no problem with the advice you're giving. Obviously it works for you, but it isn't foolproof, nowhere near actually. And when I point that out, you get aggravated.

Quote:
Without proper nutrition your body's going to break down muscle tissue for energy. It's amazing how ignorant some people are.
This isn't a fully informed opinion either. I understand the basic thread of thought here but so long as the body recognizes the importance of the muscle tissues, it will not tear at the muscles (i.e. lethargy will eat away at muscle at a much faster pace than overtraining).

The body does not WANT to break down muscle tissue. It is when the adipose tissues are stubbornly holding on and glycogen levels are dangerously low that the body resorts to muscle. Even that has its own separate mechanism.

Everything I've dealt with I've dealt in theory b/c the practical nature of fat loss/muscle gain varies DRASTICALLY from person to person.

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post #1394 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 02:56 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
I'll address your comment, but I'm not arguing this beyond this post. Also, this isn't all my personal opinion.

Yes, ejecting energy from fat is a more complex process than output minus input, but it is the most reasonable way of getting a quantitative measure on fat loss.
I'd stick with the qualitative way, but that's just me.

Quote:
What I'm getting from your posts is that you're saying that with a CALORIC SURPLUS, you can burn fat and build muscle.
Yes.

Quote:
Provided you subscribe to this theory, the corollary must also be accepted, i.e. you can burn fat and build muscle on a calorie deficit (as long as you're talking in general, not accounting for body types or lifestyles). If your theory is that the fat gain from a calorie surplus will be burned by growing muscles, then the basis behind this is that fat calories in the body can be used for muscle growth. It is only theory.
The way I look at it, as long as your diet is on point and your doing proper muscle training with plenty cardio, building muscle's only going to aid you in burning calories. (again, just me)

Quote:
All three of those statements are applicable to different people, but is that really advice at all? I have no problem with the advice you're giving. Obviously it works for you, but it isn't foolproof, nowhere near actually. And when I point that out, you get aggravated.
You're right, it's not "foolproof" but it is sound advice. It's a different perspective, but it makes sense, and I believe in it. I just feel like that's the most efficient way of doing both simultaneously. Not everyone's going to agree on that though, I get that.

Quote:
This isn't a fully informed opinion either. I understand the basic thread of thought here but so long as the body recognizes the importance of the muscle tissues, it will not tear at the muscles (i.e. lethargy will eat away at muscle at a much faster pace than overtraining).

The body does not WANT to break down muscle tissue. It is when the adipose tissues are stubbornly holding on and glycogen levels are dangerously low that the body resorts to muscle. Even that has its own separate mechanism.

Everything I've dealt with I've dealt in theory b/c the practical nature of fat loss/muscle gain varies DRASTICALLY from person to person.
Exactly.
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post #1395 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 09:06 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuthering ise View Post
Is this the typical level of advice in this thread? Hope not.
Typical of him. Most of his advice is laughable.


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post #1396 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 10:09 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik View Post
You DO have to eat frequently and consume an adequate amount of calories to burn fat and add mass.
Your definitions of 'adequate' are sketchy at best. Meal frequency is a myth. Eating at surplus won't burn fat. It will add mass; which type of mass depends on my next point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik View Post
To build muscle you gotta eat more calories than your body works off.
You neglected to mention you need to be taking in at least 1g of protein per lb of lean body mass & lifting heavy three times a week. Without those two, eating at caloric surplus will just add more and more fat. I'm aware you told him to 'load up on protein', but proper numbers will help him more.

Quote:
Without proper nutrition your body's going to break down muscle tissue for energy.
Correct, but you can eat at a good sized deficit and maintain every single lb of muscle if you follow the three rules above.

Quote:
"DURRR, YOU GOTTA STARVE YOURSELF AND WORKOUT DUDE. THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT!"
Who said this?

To wrap up:

1. The guy wanted to lose fat. That's his primary goal.

2. Outside of initial 'noob gains', you can't add muscle and burn fat at the same time. One requires caloric deficit, one requires caloric surplus. It's easier to burn fat with more muscle, yes. Adding mass will aid in losing fat later, yes - but it's a two stage process. Bulk then cut or cut then bulk. They don't happen at the same time. So his goals for now are;

~ Lose fat
~ Maintain muscle

That's easy.

~ Eat 500 calories below maintenance.
~ 1-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight.
~ Lift heavy 3 times a week (focusing on compounds)

Cardio is unessential but you can if you like. Get some EFA's down you too.

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post #1397 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Quote:
Typical of him. Most of his advice is laughable.
Just like your numbers.

Quote:
You neglected to mention you need to be taking in at least 1g of protein per lb of lean body mass & lifting heavy three times a week. Without those two, eating at caloric surplus will just add more and more fat. I'm aware you told him to 'load up on protein', but proper numbers will help him more.


No shit.
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post #1398 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Quote any numbers he posted which you find laughable. I haven't seen them.

You didn't mention anything about quantity of protein so I did. Is a beginner supposed to guess? Maybe he should read your mind to find the numbers instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Flex
Typical of him. Most of his advice is laughable.
I see. I hate misinformation being spread so I'll do my best to set the record straight where possible.

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post #1399 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 10:37 AM
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Don't need to quote shit really. Dude runs his mouth to anyone who comes in here with different opinions throughout the thread. Get off your high horse, God knows you have no reason to be on it. As soon as I said what I'm generally lifting, kid catches a bitch case and ask me to post video proof.

And nobody's "misinforming" anyone. Nothing I said was untrue.
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post #1400 of 4928 (permalink) Old 03-18-2011, 10:37 AM
To obtain, something of equal value must be lost..
 
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Re: Workout/Staying in Shape Thread

Beginners should be encouraged to do their own research.

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