Wrestling Forum banner

Transgender boy made to wrestle women wins Texas State women's wrestling title. Obviously.

8K views 156 replies 61 participants last post by  Reaper 
#1 · (Edited)
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/northeast-tarrant/article135021414.html

Trinity’s transgender boy wins girls state wrestling crown

BY JEFF CAPLAN
jeffcaplan@star-telegram.com
LINKEDIN
GOOGLE+
PINTEREST
REDDIT
PRINT
ORDER REPRINT OF THIS STORY
CYPRESS
Mack Beggs’ undefeated run to a state championship is complete.

The transgender wrestler from Euless Trinity High School defeated Chelsea Sanchez of Katy Morton Ranch to claim the Class 6A girls state title in the 110-pound weight class.

Beggs, a junior who was making a third consecutive trip to the UIL Wrestling State Tournament, won the title for the first time.

He was met with a smattering of boos following his victory, which was quickly drowned out by cheers. And a bloody nose almost forced him to forfeit. But he survived to finish the season a pristine 56-0.

Beggs is transitioning to a male aided by testosterone treatment, a fact rival coaches and wrestlers believe give Beggs an unfair advantage.

However, University Interscholastic League rules mandate Beggs wrestle as a girl and against girls.

Last year, the state’s school superintendents voted overwhelmingly to determine an athlete’s gender by birth certificate. The UIL also does not allow girls to compete in the boys division or vice-versa.

Coaches of wrestlers who lost to Beggs did not allow their athletes to speak with reporters after their matches. Coaches also declined interviews, often giving a terse “no comment,” that seemed to signify their disapproval of allowing the 5-foot-2 Beggs to compete against girls.

The mother of Beggs’ first-round opponent, League City Clear Spring’s Taylor Latham, said she had wanted her daughter to forfeit.

And now Beggs left to wonder if he’ll be back on the mat next season. A lawsuit filed against the UIL by Coppell attorney Jim Baudhuin, the father of a female wrestler who competes in a different weight class than Beggs, aims to keep Beggs from wrestling against girls next season.

If the suit is successful and the UIL declines to revisit its birth certificate rule, as UIL deputy executive director Jamey Harrison indicated Friday, it could put Beggs on the sideline for his senior year.

“The overwhelming sentiment here is that Mack should be allowed to wrestle, but should be required to compete against the boys,” Baudhuin. “Our beef is not against Mack or her folks or school. It is with the UIL.”

There is precedent for Mack to wrestle against boys. The NCAA in 2011 issued policy that requires a female to male athlete using testosterone to compete on a men’s team.

Earlier Saturday, Beggs pinned Grand Prairie’s Kailyn Clay to advance to the finals at the Berry Center in the Cypress-Fairbanks school district.
He still has the physical prowess of a man and a well-trained 17 year old boy has NO legit competition amongst girls in the world. The added testosterone obviously worked.

BTW, I'm all for transitioning, but if you're transition and you use the biological determinism argument to allowed to transition, then you absolutely MUST accept the scientifically accepted fact that you're stronger than women with the treatments hence not eligible to make mincemeat of other women and fuck around with competitive sport at will.

Funny thing is, this boy actually wants to wrestle other boys. The State made him wrestle women fpalm
 
#2 ·
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/northeast-tarrant/article135021414.html



He still has the physical prowess of a man and a well-trained 17 year old boy has NO legit competition amongst girls in the world. The added testosterone obviously worked.

BTW, I'm all for transitioning, but if you're transition and you use the biological determinism argument to allowed to transition, then you absolutely MUST accept the scientifically accepted fact that you're stronger than women with the treatments hence not eligible to make mincemeat of other women and fuck around with competitive sport at will.

Funny thing is, this boy actually wants to wrestle other boys. The State made him wrestle women fpalm
Typically the pro "identity" crowd ignores stuff like this. They'll always conveniently ignore combat sports and fighters like Fallon Fox who was knocking out women .
 
#3 ·
I actually think that this time feminists have a case for using sexism to keep this boy in the female division against his wishes. Why? Because I believe that at some level the fact that they didn't respect his transitioning as well as they were probably afraid that "she" would get badly beaten up in the male division would reflect more poorly on them.

The State is to blame for this. I have no ill will against the teen. If he's transitioning and getting treatments then he should be fighting in the division he belongs in.

It's a tough situation, I understand. But I really think that there needs to be some sort of special situational decision-making based on biological determinism that needs to be taken here. Testosterone is the male combat hormone (loosely speaking) .. It's going to give anyone taking it an unfair advantage.

Aren't there rules against men taking testosterone in sports?
 
#5 ·
Taking gender identity out of it, this amounts to a high school wrestler on a performance enhancing drug mauling everyone on the way to a state title.

I'm sure the state was really psyched about making the rule, but this situation makes them look like dopes. That's why there needs to flexibility on this issue, we're in uncharted waters right now.
 
#9 · (Edited)
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/northeast-tarrant/article135021414.html



He still has the physical prowess of a man and a well-trained 17 year old boy has NO legit competition amongst girls in the world. The added testosterone obviously worked.

BTW, I'm all for transitioning, but if you're transition and you use the biological determinism argument to allowed to transition, then you absolutely MUST accept the scientifically accepted fact that you're stronger than women with the treatments hence not eligible to make mincemeat of other women and fuck around with competitive sport at will.

Funny thing is, this boy actually wants to wrestle other boys. The State made him wrestle women fpalm
There's nothing obvious about this outcome. I wrestled in high school and I've seen girls in the same weight class wreck guys within seconds. They specifically teach you ways to overcome people who are physically stronger than you. Skill will always triumph over pure strength. Here's a recent antithesis to your claim: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...s/fl-cnsp-regionalpb-0115-20170130-story.html

It is pretty clear that Wellington's Hosanna Kropp likes contact.

The 16-year-old sophomore at Wellington High School is gearing up for Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) fighting, as she has been boxing with the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office PAL (Police Athletic League) in Royal Palm Beach, and grappling with the Wellington Wrestling Club and on the junior varsity (JV) squad at her school.

Not only did she win her first fight, but Kropp has also compiled a 4-3 mark for the Wolverine JVs, all while going against male competitors. During the recent holiday break from school, she won the 132-pound JV division of the Sunshine Open showcase at Cardinal Gibbons High School in Fort Lauderdale. She was one of eight girls competing and the only girl to win a championship.

"This is pretty cool," Kropp gushed after recording her second consecutive first-period pin to finish 3-0 in the tournament and win the gold medal. "I worked really hard and it feels good for it to pay off. A lot of people tell you that you can't do something and I think it is awesome to be out here proving them wrong."

After boxing with the PAL for three years, she saw a flier for wrestling and decided to try it. She is also looking into starting Jiu-Jitsu since she already does the other MMA components.

"I really like the fighting sports and that has helped me a lot, confidence-wise and strength-wise," said Kropp, who hopes to be a firefighter. "Wrestling and boxing correspond because they help me realize that I am powerful no matter what. I can do anything that anyone else can do.

"It is definitely a challenge and it can be intimidating at times," she said. "After a while, you don't get nervous, It is just part of your lifestyle."

She admits that she can learn something from each match – win or lose.

"When I lose a lot of things go through my head," Kropp said. "I feel disappointed, and that I could have done better, but at the same time I feel that it is a learning experience. It is something that I can learn from and get better for the next time. When I win, I am happy because all that hard work paid off."

Wellington Wrestling club coach Jake Ferrara was not surprised with her performance in Fort Lauderdale.

"She works hard," Ferrara said. "Hosanna comes to the kids club practices every Tuesday and Thursday and she is one of my assistant coaches there. She is in our Guts Club, which means she hasn't missed a practice or a tournament for a full season.

"She battles hard with all of the guys," Ferrara added. "She has no fear when it comes to wrestling. She will wrestle anyone – heavier, lighter, male or female – and never has any problems."
 
#12 ·
There's nothing obvious about this outcome. I wrestled in high school and I've seen girls in the same weight class wreck guys within seconds. They specifically teach you ways to overcome people who are physically stronger than you. Skill will always triumph over pure strength.
And I've seen lanky non-competitive men beat hulkish women in arm wrestling.

The thing is that with testosterone, this girl had an unfair advantage over girls who don't have it. It takes skill out of the equation or at least diminishes its value which is really all the advantage you need.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I blame the UIL. He wanted to wrestle against the guys and the UIL denied him that opportunity. He wrestled who he was up against and won. Might not be fair for the others but I don't think the situation was fair for him either.

Also, for the people that are blaming him, it wasn't his decision who he wrestled. He obviously wanted a different situation, and there was a board that decided it for him. People blaming a high school student for this entire thing is absolutely ridiculous to me.
 
#13 ·
Oh boy..

Sorry, had to

Seriously though, 56-0??? No wonder.. If he's transitioning into a male then he 100% should not be competing & whooping these girls

I get that there's a fear he may get steamrollered by the men but at the end of the day that's his decision & it's what he wants; to be a male, so treat him as one.

Also...isn't he taking peds?
 
#15 ·
I love the hypocrisy of the right wingers in this thread and it just prove what a fraud they are.

They say when it comes to bathroom rights trans people should use the bathroom of the gender they were born but now in this case they are getting their wish where a trans person who was born a female was forced to wrestle other girls and they are bitching oh they should be wrestling the gender they are transing to.

It just shows how the people saying this have no credibility
 
#20 ·


Na mate you've got a mental disorder.

In all seriousness though I have nothing against transgenders but he's in the process of transitioning his sex ergo until he's actually made the full transition should be fully treated as a man, especially if he's beating the shit out of women while ding so :lmao
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's prescribed by a doctor is probably the reason why its allowed.



Person was pretty much on enhancement drugs, should have been facing males. Not sure who's bright idea this was.

Skill or no skill drugs were used and an unfair advantage was given.

They should have respected the wrestler's desires given transitioning was started.
It was the conservatives because they consider this person a female because he was born a she.

Funny how conservatives would want this person using the girls bathroom but wrestling the boys

Conservatives should really make up their minds what they want. Should this person be treated like a boy or girl? You cant have it both ways.
 
#27 ·
Funny thing is, this boy actually wants to wrestle other boys. The State made him wrestle women fpalm
This is what is most important to be known about this. What needs to be pointed out any time any one talks about this. He WANTED to wrestle boys. Rules to protect girls from boys who trans ends up hurting the girls. My understanding is NCAA rules says a FTM can compete against M but a MTF can not compete against F.

I am sure some people will say he should just not wrestle but that would not change anything and allow discrimination to win. By doing this it will shine a light on how the rules need to change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: birthday_massacre
#29 ·
NCAA didn't rule on it though. It was the UIL and they're mum on the subject. It was decided through an internal referrendum and we know very little about the reasoning behind the decision they took.

There's a lawsuit happening and that should clarify things and maybe set a precedent for the future.
 
#41 ·
I have been following this story all across the internet and it somehow led me here.

It should be of no surprise that this mess is all in Texas. Such a mess that state is. I hear they want to start charging cis women murder charges over abortions. I find it very amusing that the wrestling community is more up in arms over the testosterone shots than the blatant discrimination. Maybe once the McMahon Family accepts the LGBT community instead of mocking them, but I digress....

I only got into wrestling very late into my transition so I never had to deal with the drama, but doubt anyone thinks that estrogen shots are giving anyone an unfair advantage in anything but uncontrollable weeping contests. lol
 
#38 ·
If anybody should be blamed, it's the University Interscholastic League. This could have been all avoid if they just let the kid wrestle in the boy's division and see what happens. When I wrestle back in the day, sometimes you could have a female vs female match but most of the time, because you didn't actually have a lot of females in wrestling, they had to wrestle males instead.
 
#39 ·
I feel like if you are in the middle of transitioning from one gender to the next then you probably shouldn't be allowed to participate in these kind of contests until the transformation is complete. I know it sounds like discrimination, but situations like this are causing too many issues. Scientifically they can prove the transgender has the advantage so that throws everything up in the air.

I feel bad for the transgender people.
 
#54 · (Edited)
In this case they could test blood-testosterone levels, compare to average males and females of that age, and determine which gendered team would be most appropriate. That in itself might get messy but it'd be pretty rough to forbid any transgender kid from playing any school sports. They're so young that most are probably not going to be "fully transitioned" (if there's even a measure for that) by the time they go into high school.
 
#42 · (Edited)
There is no completed transformation for transgenders (female to male) because they have to take testosterone forever otherwise they start reverting. One of the reasons why this even as a science is a difficult one is because you can give any female testosterone and they'll have their performance enhanced - at the same time causing side-effects like high sex drive and potentially pregnancy issues.

The only way to make the playing field level is to let everyone take PED's if you want transgenders. But I'm pretty sure a lot of women will not want the extra testosterone in their systems. So you're right back where you're started.

Yes, transgenders have it bad. So do a lot of people who can't meet certain requirements in order to have a fair competitive environment. You cannot make competition unfair for one special needs individual especially in a one on one combat sport.
 
#46 ·
In regards how he was allowed to wrestle while taking testosterone I am guessing because it was for medical reasons. I have no idea what the rules are in any school district let alone this one but I seem to recall having a coworker years ago who's son had Crohn's Disease and was taking steroids as treatment. I may be wrong but I think he said his son was playing sports in HS.

Perhaps someone with better knowledge on this can weigh in.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Frankly putting it, if this athlete was a middle of group athlete transitioning and not being able to win a championship, we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, American sports are incredibly competitive and they can easily define someone's entire life and future in terms of opportunities, endorsements etc. A slight advantage does mean that someone else could potentially be losing out on life-changing opportunities. So in this case, the rules which as we've tried to tell you were established by a small group in a private meeting and vote since there is no legit precedent was allowed to go without any formal legislation. Not everything has a precedent and therefore hasn't been ruled upon.

She was already an upper echelon athlete as I read somewhere that she nearly won without the treatments as well the previous year (haven't looked to confirm).

In her case specifically though the treatments seem to have given her the slight edge that was needed. The idea that there are strong females in other sports etc etc is a fallacy because in the pool of opponents she faced there wasn't one and she was the strongest and part of why she was the strongest was because she was on testosterone.

Actually I would say more than slight because the record is an incredible 56-0 with a lot of broken hearts and bodies in her wake.

Sure, if she was a middle - low level athlete and didn't win much regardless of the treatments, pretty sure no one would be talking about it.

You are not making any sense. So its ok to use PEDs and face boys but not ok to use PEDs and face girls?
You know nothing of science. As a man, I'm hoping you have this thing in your body that produces natural testosterone (which judging by the amount of hate and aggression you have towards others means that your testosterone levels are out of whack)

A girl on testosterone would be competing with men who already have it fpalm
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top