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Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

123K views 687 replies 140 participants last post by  Clique 
#1 · (Edited)
This is the place to discuss the careers of your favorite wrestlers, review classic matches, historic events, share videos, and more! So start discussing topics from the WWF, NWA/WCW, ECW, and the Territories.
 
#395 ·
(Y)

Did I tell you I watched the Steiners vs Quebecers match? Well, I did. Good shit. Great shit, tbf. Quebecers outworked the Steiners in it I thought. Although Steiners were great in their roles with the rules being at their disadvantage. I'm just a sucker for tremendous teammate chemistry - which Jacques & PCO both showed all throughout that one. Oh and JOHNNY POLO.
 
#412 ·
Missed this post. Explains why you haven't told me about the Fall Brawl match yet. FUCK.

Oh yeah, totally seen it a few times. Love it. I often image it with Undertaker working less "dead" and all that jazz, but I'll still go berserk knowing I got the match in some capacity. Those MENG guttural sounds. Triple H must be inspired as he punches/takes punches.

------------

Good reads, Corey. I've been plenty open about how I feel Undertaker & Bret have next to no chemistry with each other. I blame a lot of it on the length of their matches, tbhayley. Always went long and in the negative fashion behind it. I struggle to finish both from '97. Not fun at all. Me not having fun watching Undertaker matches is sick. Literally makes me sick to my stomach. Not a world I like to live in.

I could do with watching their "gem" you made mention of in the end. Maybe they'll have some chemistry after all b/c it doesn't go nearly as long with all of the uninteresting work to slam through.
 
#400 ·
So I'm going through all the WWF in your house. Mind games I think is most peoples favorite but what are some matches you guys love and from what in your house?


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Shying away from the usual Taker/HBK Hell in a Cell and HBK/Foley at Mind Games, here are some of my favorites:

HBK vs. Jeff Jarrett - IYH 2: The Lumberjacks
HBK vs. Diesel No Holds Barred - IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Main Event 4-way from IYH Final Four
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold - IYH: Revenge of the Taker

Plus basically the whole card from Canadian Stampede (best IYH show all around obviously) and Bret vs. Davey from Season's Beatings.
 
#401 ·
Always dug the Goldust vs Pillman brawl from Ground Zero. One of the better "attitude era" slugfests seen on PPV.

Razor vs Jarrett & Roadie from IYH I.
Owen & Yokozuna had fun tag matches vs Smoking Guns & Allied Powers on the first few.
Hart vs Hakushi (DUH, b/c it's wonderful)
Razor vs 1-2-3 Kid - Rage in the Cage
Michaels vs Diesel - Good Friends, Better Enemies
Austin vs Savio Vega - Beware of Dog II
Undertaker vs Mankind - Buried Alive (probably their most underrated match)
Vader vs Shamrock - A Cold Day in Hell

Note: I'm trying to stay away from everything that was already listed b/c it would make my list too minus Austin vs Hart from Revenge of the Taker.
 
#403 ·
No, no I watched it when I watched the whole show a few months back. Thought I posted something on it, but suppose not. Felt it was solid and nothing more. Was dipping in and out of interest with Bret's leg work for a majority. Then it ends in a non-finish and I was pretty iffy on that. It's a one match show as far as I'm concerned. A fabulous match at that - Undertaker vs Mankind - but nothing on that show is worth checking out, imo. Nearly 1997 WWF in a nutshell for me. As I made mention of in the other Discussion thread we occupy.
 
#404 ·
Hard to keep track of all your posts throughout here. :p Shame you weren't feelin it though, I thought Bret's leg work was wonderful and Austin sold it well. Have it right above their South Africa match so probably their #3 encounter. Not sure if I've seen Taker/Mankind from that show. If I have I don't remember because all of their matches are a big blur to me outside of the Buried Alive match. I probably own it somewhere though...
 
#405 ·
omg you don't remember Undertaker vs Mankind? It's on the Tombstone set. You have to refresh your memory on it, if seen it at all. It's amazing. A lot tend to consider it their best match together. I have a hard time disputing that, tbhayley.

and not to snub the previous topic: I did like Austin's selling throughout. There was something about Bret that just sucked the life out of me a lot that year. Wasn't a pleasant thing to have happen. For example, I'm one of the few to really dislike the Undertaker vs Hart matches later that year. :hayley2
 
#406 ·
omg you don't remember Undertaker vs Mankind? It's on the Tombstone set. You have to refresh your memory on it, if seen it at all. It's amazing. A lot tend to consider it their best match together. I have a hard time disputing that, tbhayley.

and not to snub the previous topic: I did like Austin's selling throughout. There was something about Bret that just sucked the life out of me a lot that year. Wasn't a pleasant thing to have happen. For example, I'm one of the few to really dislike the Undertaker vs Hart matches later that year. :hayley2
Well that answers one question. (Y) I'll keep it in the back of my mind for a random day's viewing. Too much wrestling out there man...

I think I just like Bret more than you do. We'll settle on that. Always tend to enjoy his legwork (especially figure fours around ringposts) and it's even better when someone sells it well. Diesel & Austin are two of the best. Can't even remember any Taker match I've seen outside of Rumble '96, which is a really weird one.
 
#407 ·
That's probably apt. Always liked Bret, but he's never been one of my "all time" favorites or anything.

Bret vs Undertaker chemistry is one of those main event pairings I made the topic of where they just don't click. Of course, this one isn't as universal in agreement b/c some do like dig their '97 matches a lot. However, the point is one worthy of being discussed. Such for example Austin and Undertaker being hit or miss a ton. Undertaker vs Triple H too. I like to use Taker a lot, but you get the gist. Triple H vs Foley in any incarnation was magic. Triple H vs Shawn, ehhh. Not so much. More bad than good there. Angle vs Austin over Angle vs Benoit. Yada yada. You get my point. There are just those big time matches that don't click most of the time, if ever out there.
 
#420 ·
Bret's 97 was a goat year for anyone brilliant heel work and matches. Taker was a shitty wrestler back then. People tend to forget how bad he was because of the Mania matches a decade latter. Taker/Sid is one of the worst Mania matches ever. I liked Bret/Taker for the most part. Bret is going to work the smart match and do the logical thing which is chop the big man down to size. If he's at fault for anything it's for taking too much of the match.
 
#409 ·
For what it's worth, I believe Foley/Taker RotT is the best match in their series, but it's hard to judge Foley/Taker matches against each other. I mean, how do you compare The Boiler Room Brawl, Buried Alive, Hell in a Cell, their KotR Match, and the RotT match? They were all so different it's just tough to judge. I still can't figure out a star rating for Boiler Room Brawl and Hell in a Cell. I mean how do you rate those matches? What in the world can you possibly compare them to? I've probably watched Foley/Taker Hell in a Cell more times than any other match, atleast 20 times I'd guess, and I just have no clue where to even begin judging it. It's a pure story-telling spectacle, more so than a wrestling match.
 
#419 ·
I don't really think he and Taker had a match up to normal Folley standards from that time though Taker was pretty awful form most of the decade. I do think Mick was the first guy to get a watchable feud out of Taker so credit for that.

I was recently going through who would be the top wrestlers of the 90's and man Mick has a strong case for top 5. He's never been known as a "workrate" guy, but he delivered everywhere he went in any environment. We talk about guys who can carry someone to match, and Mick was right up there with Bret in the 90's imo.
 
#411 · (Edited)
Since we were talking about them last night and LilOlMe requested a review...

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker - ***
Royal Rumble 1996

So I've seen this match two times prior and my rating has went down on every watch now. :p This is just a very odd match. On one hand, some people might highly appreciate the work that Bret puts on Undertaker's leg and might enjoy the slower pace, but in this case I'm not one of those people. I'm always one to enjoy a good bit of limbwork and psychology during a match, but honestly this got pretty boring at times. Bret taking off Taker's protective mask thing was pretty cool I guess. I felt like they went unnecessarily long just for the hell of it though because the PPV went WAY short of the full 3 hours. It's essentially a 28 minute No DQ match with an ass ton of legwork that doesn't play into anything because of an eventual dq finish. Quite the strange way to build to a Wrestlemania match between Taker & Diesel considering it ruined what was about to be a pretty cool finish, but whatever. Does anyone know if Taker ever got a rematch and if it was any good if he did?

+++++++++++++++++++++++

WWF Championship Match w/ Special Referee Shawn Michaels
The Undertaker (c) vs. Bret Hart - *** 1/4 - *** 1/2 (can't decide)
Summerslam 1997

Hmmm. I don't know if I've ever seen this match in full, so we'll just call this my first viewing. This one was incredibly similar to their Rumble match, in fact a couple of the sequences were exactly the same. I think this was probably more exciting due to to Shawn being the guest ref and Bret being full on heel. I think Bret did pretty well throughout the whole match at working heel and doing everything he could to win. Unfortunately there was more damn legwork that went on forever and ever and wasn't that exciting. I was a little bothered by Taker's selling, especially when he was in the Sharpshooter. He just layed there motionless, no reaction to anything. My two favorite parts of this match that weren't the finish was the time where Bret was trying to run the ropes and Taker just reached across and grabbed him by the throat while he was running at full speed along with the superplex spot. In this case I actually liked how shaky Taker appeared when climbing the ropes, then Bret kicked the top ropes to make him collapse. I loved how much of a struggle it was to actually hit that superplex after Taker had already fallen off the top rope on the first try. It was odd that the chokeslam over the ropes didn't get a bigger reaction. I liked the last few minutes of this quite a bit and thought the finish was pulled off extremely well. Shawn's reaction was fantastic. I'd like to rate it a little higher but once again it's 28 fucking minutes and half of that isn't all that exciting. The appearances from Bearer, Pillman, & Owen really didn't add much of anything outside of Shawn missing the count after the chokeslam, but the beginning and end are both excellent though.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker - *** 1/4
WWF One Night Only

What the hell is up with these guys going 28 minutes every match? Weird. I'm not gonna lie, this is was pretty tough to sit through. After watching both of their other LONG ass matches back-to-back, I was hoping they'd switch up the way this one was worked. Unfortunately for me, they didn't. It was the same legwork, same pacing, same story, same sequences, SAME SAME SAME. hahaha. Really though, I wanted to fast forward everytime I saw Bret go for the leg because I was so tired of it. This match probably has the best crowd, so that's a positive. There was one sequence that I really liked where Taker tried to drop the leg but Bret caught him and reversed into the sharpshooter, then Taker powered out of it. That was really where I thought the match peaked, then they just kept going until we got a really shitty finish. If I hadn't watched the other two before this, I may have enjoyed this a little more, but I still would've known it's pretty much the same damn match as the other ones. All in all a pretty overrated series if I'm being honest. My favorite match of the three would probably be Summerslam but that's not really saying that I love it. As it stands, their Madison Square Garden match in '92 from the Dungeon Collection set is still their best encounter by a long shot. That one's a real gem and doesn't have any fucking legwork. :lol
 
#413 ·
Yeah, I definitely recommend anyone checks out their MSG '92 match. It's all about Taker being an unstoppable no-selling monster and Bret playing the underdog. Taker & Bearer go full heel throughout and it's really cool.

The length of those matches are pretty ridiculous. The fact they had THREE of them that went just under 30 minutes and none of them had a clean finish is preposterous.
 
#414 ·
Don't know who put it in that all their matches needed to go that type of length. It didn't even close the show at ONO & it still went that long. Lordy - why? We get it that they're both huge names & draws for the company, but wouldn't a shorter, more interesting match been just as effective? Bah. Oh well.
 
#415 ·
Well, here's my response in the DVD thread in the general section. It's post #1472. Just stating that for anyone who reads in the future, because those links tend to go off by a page or two, once the thread gets really long.

I totally agree with you guys that those matches would have been served by being a shorter length. Mainly RR & SS, though, as I'm big on ONO, and thought that all worked pretty perfectly.

It's strange too, because I don't remember most Bret matches being that long in length against shorter, faster, opponents. Why make it so long vs. The Undertaker? Especially as as I pointed out, I don't think 'Taker was regularly going even 17 minutes at that time, let alone 28 minutes.
 
#421 ·
On the subject of Mick Foley I think that Mick is an top 10 overall talent in wrestling history.

In ECW, Mick's promo work with his left field promos and especially the "anti hardcore" promos delivered from a wrestler's standpoint where Mick questions if risking health and body is worth the brief adulation from fickle, bloodthirsty fans that care more about the brand than the wrestlers and who turn on anyone in a second I belive are certainly some of the most unique and well delivered promos of the 90s. It is also quite impressive that Mick Foley was able to get two of his three gimicks to legendary status and all three of his gimmicks to main event status while having to do comedic, serious and psychotic sides of the characters, Mankind in particular was brilliantly performed. You look at Mick in the ring and while he wasn't very technically proficient, he still was a good worker who had some classic matches and got the most out of who he was wrestling and adapted his odd style to whoever he wrestled.

Perhaps the greatest testiment to Mick's career is looking at Mick as an elevator of talent. As mentioned he helped Undertaker's career by bringing out a new aspect in Taker and generating some interest back into an at the time waining character. Mick was also the first one called upon for Austin to defend the strap against. When Triple H was being questioned for getting the belt to soon and not being able to be an a plus player, Mick Foley came in and the two had their fantastic feud and awesome street fight which went a long way in showing Triple H could be a franchise guy. More recently Mick elevated a young Randy Orton to new career heights and Edge's feud with Mick was the precursor to Edge going on to be a top wrestler in the E for the next several years. Perhaps most importantly is Mick's benefit to the Rock. The Rock was shaping up to be a special talent and was already a big time wrestler, but after the Rock's brutality of Mick Foley in their feud and most importantly the R and S connection brought out the comedic charisma combined with the natural chemistry the Rock could have with anyone which is ultimately what led the Rock to getting to the pinnacle of wrestling. All of these people mentioned are huge names that Mick varying degrees elevated. (well maybe not Austin) Even Mickey Whipwreck was a huge benefactor of Mick's elevating abilities.
 
#426 ·
Wanted to watch some old school Southern tag team matches and gave a watch to the UWF Badstreet match between Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death vs. Terry Gordy & Michael Hayes. A fun match consisting of two great workers in Terry Gordy and Dr. Death and two mediocre workers in Michael Hayes and Ted Dibiase. Gordy and Williams carried the whole damn thing. Alright, alright, Hayes and Dibiase both pulled their weight in this match as well but the encounters between Williams and Gordy were the best part of it. Although Hayes busting Dr. Death open with his Cowboy boots was great also.

Rating: ★★★½
 
#427 ·
Attitude Era

Hey everyone, just have a quick question. For a while now I've been wanting to go back and watch the attitude era and Im trying to decide where I should start. I want to watch at the peak of Austin and the Rock and was thinking maybe watch from 98-01. Any suggestions or opinions on the topic? Also does anyone know where I can download every episode and ppv from those years? Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
#429 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Hey everyone, just have a quick question. For a while now I've been wanting to go back and watch the attitude era and Im trying to decide where I should start. I want to watch at the peak of Austin and the Rock and was thinking maybe watch from 98-01. Any suggestions or opinions on the topic? Also does anyone know where I can download every episode and ppv from those years? Any help is greatly appreciated.
I would start the raw after the Montreal screw job, that is a great place to start.
 
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