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Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

123K views 687 replies 140 participants last post by  Clique 
#1 · (Edited)
This is the place to discuss the careers of your favorite wrestlers, review classic matches, historic events, share videos, and more! So start discussing topics from the WWF, NWA/WCW, ECW, and the Territories.
 
#411 · (Edited)
Since we were talking about them last night and LilOlMe requested a review...

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker - ***
Royal Rumble 1996

So I've seen this match two times prior and my rating has went down on every watch now. :p This is just a very odd match. On one hand, some people might highly appreciate the work that Bret puts on Undertaker's leg and might enjoy the slower pace, but in this case I'm not one of those people. I'm always one to enjoy a good bit of limbwork and psychology during a match, but honestly this got pretty boring at times. Bret taking off Taker's protective mask thing was pretty cool I guess. I felt like they went unnecessarily long just for the hell of it though because the PPV went WAY short of the full 3 hours. It's essentially a 28 minute No DQ match with an ass ton of legwork that doesn't play into anything because of an eventual dq finish. Quite the strange way to build to a Wrestlemania match between Taker & Diesel considering it ruined what was about to be a pretty cool finish, but whatever. Does anyone know if Taker ever got a rematch and if it was any good if he did?

+++++++++++++++++++++++

WWF Championship Match w/ Special Referee Shawn Michaels
The Undertaker (c) vs. Bret Hart - *** 1/4 - *** 1/2 (can't decide)
Summerslam 1997

Hmmm. I don't know if I've ever seen this match in full, so we'll just call this my first viewing. This one was incredibly similar to their Rumble match, in fact a couple of the sequences were exactly the same. I think this was probably more exciting due to to Shawn being the guest ref and Bret being full on heel. I think Bret did pretty well throughout the whole match at working heel and doing everything he could to win. Unfortunately there was more damn legwork that went on forever and ever and wasn't that exciting. I was a little bothered by Taker's selling, especially when he was in the Sharpshooter. He just layed there motionless, no reaction to anything. My two favorite parts of this match that weren't the finish was the time where Bret was trying to run the ropes and Taker just reached across and grabbed him by the throat while he was running at full speed along with the superplex spot. In this case I actually liked how shaky Taker appeared when climbing the ropes, then Bret kicked the top ropes to make him collapse. I loved how much of a struggle it was to actually hit that superplex after Taker had already fallen off the top rope on the first try. It was odd that the chokeslam over the ropes didn't get a bigger reaction. I liked the last few minutes of this quite a bit and thought the finish was pulled off extremely well. Shawn's reaction was fantastic. I'd like to rate it a little higher but once again it's 28 fucking minutes and half of that isn't all that exciting. The appearances from Bearer, Pillman, & Owen really didn't add much of anything outside of Shawn missing the count after the chokeslam, but the beginning and end are both excellent though.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker - *** 1/4
WWF One Night Only

What the hell is up with these guys going 28 minutes every match? Weird. I'm not gonna lie, this is was pretty tough to sit through. After watching both of their other LONG ass matches back-to-back, I was hoping they'd switch up the way this one was worked. Unfortunately for me, they didn't. It was the same legwork, same pacing, same story, same sequences, SAME SAME SAME. hahaha. Really though, I wanted to fast forward everytime I saw Bret go for the leg because I was so tired of it. This match probably has the best crowd, so that's a positive. There was one sequence that I really liked where Taker tried to drop the leg but Bret caught him and reversed into the sharpshooter, then Taker powered out of it. That was really where I thought the match peaked, then they just kept going until we got a really shitty finish. If I hadn't watched the other two before this, I may have enjoyed this a little more, but I still would've known it's pretty much the same damn match as the other ones. All in all a pretty overrated series if I'm being honest. My favorite match of the three would probably be Summerslam but that's not really saying that I love it. As it stands, their Madison Square Garden match in '92 from the Dungeon Collection set is still their best encounter by a long shot. That one's a real gem and doesn't have any fucking legwork. :lol
 
#413 ·
Yeah, I definitely recommend anyone checks out their MSG '92 match. It's all about Taker being an unstoppable no-selling monster and Bret playing the underdog. Taker & Bearer go full heel throughout and it's really cool.

The length of those matches are pretty ridiculous. The fact they had THREE of them that went just under 30 minutes and none of them had a clean finish is preposterous.
 
#414 ·
Don't know who put it in that all their matches needed to go that type of length. It didn't even close the show at ONO & it still went that long. Lordy - why? We get it that they're both huge names & draws for the company, but wouldn't a shorter, more interesting match been just as effective? Bah. Oh well.
 
#415 ·
Well, here's my response in the DVD thread in the general section. It's post #1472. Just stating that for anyone who reads in the future, because those links tend to go off by a page or two, once the thread gets really long.

I totally agree with you guys that those matches would have been served by being a shorter length. Mainly RR & SS, though, as I'm big on ONO, and thought that all worked pretty perfectly.

It's strange too, because I don't remember most Bret matches being that long in length against shorter, faster, opponents. Why make it so long vs. The Undertaker? Especially as as I pointed out, I don't think 'Taker was regularly going even 17 minutes at that time, let alone 28 minutes.
 
#421 ·
On the subject of Mick Foley I think that Mick is an top 10 overall talent in wrestling history.

In ECW, Mick's promo work with his left field promos and especially the "anti hardcore" promos delivered from a wrestler's standpoint where Mick questions if risking health and body is worth the brief adulation from fickle, bloodthirsty fans that care more about the brand than the wrestlers and who turn on anyone in a second I belive are certainly some of the most unique and well delivered promos of the 90s. It is also quite impressive that Mick Foley was able to get two of his three gimicks to legendary status and all three of his gimmicks to main event status while having to do comedic, serious and psychotic sides of the characters, Mankind in particular was brilliantly performed. You look at Mick in the ring and while he wasn't very technically proficient, he still was a good worker who had some classic matches and got the most out of who he was wrestling and adapted his odd style to whoever he wrestled.

Perhaps the greatest testiment to Mick's career is looking at Mick as an elevator of talent. As mentioned he helped Undertaker's career by bringing out a new aspect in Taker and generating some interest back into an at the time waining character. Mick was also the first one called upon for Austin to defend the strap against. When Triple H was being questioned for getting the belt to soon and not being able to be an a plus player, Mick Foley came in and the two had their fantastic feud and awesome street fight which went a long way in showing Triple H could be a franchise guy. More recently Mick elevated a young Randy Orton to new career heights and Edge's feud with Mick was the precursor to Edge going on to be a top wrestler in the E for the next several years. Perhaps most importantly is Mick's benefit to the Rock. The Rock was shaping up to be a special talent and was already a big time wrestler, but after the Rock's brutality of Mick Foley in their feud and most importantly the R and S connection brought out the comedic charisma combined with the natural chemistry the Rock could have with anyone which is ultimately what led the Rock to getting to the pinnacle of wrestling. All of these people mentioned are huge names that Mick varying degrees elevated. (well maybe not Austin) Even Mickey Whipwreck was a huge benefactor of Mick's elevating abilities.
 
#426 ·
Wanted to watch some old school Southern tag team matches and gave a watch to the UWF Badstreet match between Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death vs. Terry Gordy & Michael Hayes. A fun match consisting of two great workers in Terry Gordy and Dr. Death and two mediocre workers in Michael Hayes and Ted Dibiase. Gordy and Williams carried the whole damn thing. Alright, alright, Hayes and Dibiase both pulled their weight in this match as well but the encounters between Williams and Gordy were the best part of it. Although Hayes busting Dr. Death open with his Cowboy boots was great also.

Rating: ★★★½
 
#427 ·
Attitude Era

Hey everyone, just have a quick question. For a while now I've been wanting to go back and watch the attitude era and Im trying to decide where I should start. I want to watch at the peak of Austin and the Rock and was thinking maybe watch from 98-01. Any suggestions or opinions on the topic? Also does anyone know where I can download every episode and ppv from those years? Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
#429 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Hey everyone, just have a quick question. For a while now I've been wanting to go back and watch the attitude era and Im trying to decide where I should start. I want to watch at the peak of Austin and the Rock and was thinking maybe watch from 98-01. Any suggestions or opinions on the topic? Also does anyone know where I can download every episode and ppv from those years? Any help is greatly appreciated.
I would start the raw after the Montreal screw job, that is a great place to start.
 
#428 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Start from early 1997. You don't want to miss what is arguably their greatest year ever. Two 5star matches that year, awesome Austin/Hart feud and Austins rise to superstardom, birth of DX, Canada/USA feud, Kane/Undertaker feud, visual change and presentation of the company, first ever hardcore match, first ever HIAC etc. etc.
DO NOT miss WWF 97.
 
#430 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Start from early 1997. You don't want to miss what is arguably their greatest year ever. Two 5star matches that year, awesome Austin/Hart feud and Austins rise to superstardom, birth of DX, Canada/USA feud, Kane/Undertaker feud, visual change and presentation of the company, first ever hardcore match, first ever HIAC etc. etc.
DO NOT miss WWF 97.
This.
 
#431 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Id watch kotr 96 and the next 3-4 raws just to get a glimpse of it. Then id skip to early 97 like after the rumble and Watch from there.
 
#432 ·
Re: Attitude Era

I'm rewatching it all and things really picked up the night after Rumble 1997. Though the week after wasn't as good, the rumble after 97 with all the controversy and stuff is when things got good. Main event scene that time was good, but minor things weren't as good. Crush in NOD wasn't good, whatever tag team Owen/Bulldog feuded with weren't that interesting and so on.
 
#434 ·
Re: Attitude Era

I advise you to start with 96 because that way you can be amazed on how much WWE changed from a cheesy family friendly product to a more edgy entertaining product in one year's time. Ahh back when their creative time was actually CREATIVE. Also 97 to me always counts as part of the attitude era especially with WM 14 when Austin beat HBK.
 
#436 ·
Re: Attitude Era

I advise you to start with 96 because that way you can be amazed on how much WWE changed from a cheesy family friendly product to a more edgy entertaining product in one year's time. Ahh back when their creative time was actually CREATIVE. Also 97 to me always counts as part of the attitude era especially with WM 14 when Austin beat HBK.
Probably just an oversight on your part, but WM 14 was in 1998, not 97.
 
#438 ·
Re: Attitude Era

The latter part of 96 was good...but I may be bias because Stone Cold was calling out Bret Hart.

It's funny watching Austin as a heel, and when Bret's music hits during the Royal Rumble in 97 and Stone Cold has the "OH NO" face..something he isn't known for :lol
 
#440 · (Edited)
Re: Attitude Era

The latter part of 96 was good...but I may be bias because Stone Cold was calling out Bret Hart.

It's funny watching Austin as a heel, and when Bret's music hits during the Royal Rumble in 97 and Stone Cold has the "OH NO" face..something he isn't known for :lol
This. If you really want to appreciate the Attitude Era you have to start at the rise of Stone Cold. Starting halfway through 97-you'll miss tons of great content. Stone Cold vs Brett Hart is the match that really got Austin ready for the main events. That image of him bleeding and passing out was on TONS of of his t-shirts. They were everywhere. I think they called it "blood from a stone" IIRC. Great stuff. Perfect ending: Hart went over and didn't lose any cred. AND it also but Stone Cold over as being tough as nails.

IMO the attitude era ended around the time that the WWF bought out the WCW. I never considered Jericho's first run as a part of the attitude era. Everything had really died down by that part.
 
#447 ·
Re: Attitude Era

I'm in middle of rewatching the attitude era. I tried starting with 98 but got bored of it so I skipped to january 99 and have been watching from there. Currently at Summer Slam 1999. I think I got bored cause at the time I could only find the fox sports version of the shows so they had a lot of the good stuff cut out of it.
 
#449 ·
Re: Attitude Era

I'm in middle of rewatching the attitude era. I tried starting with 98 but got bored of it so I skipped to january 99 and have been watching from there. Currently at Summer Slam 1999. I think I got bored cause at the time I could only find the fox sports version of the shows so they had a lot of the good stuff cut out of it.
The USA versions of 1999 Raw are on dailymotion.
 
#451 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Start from the 3/10/97 episode. That's when RAW is WAR/WAR ZONE started..pretty much that's when the AE started as well
 
#452 · (Edited)
Re: Attitude Era

Majority of '97 I wouldn't really call it that, most of that year was the USA vs. Canada storyline which was too traditional to be Attitude Era, the Hart Foundation will always be New Generation Era IMO. Foreign countries still hadn't warm up to Austin yet. PPV posters most of the year still resembled the New Generation Era style.

Towards the end of the year though yes, especially with the creation of DX and Montreal. Also that was when Austin became a fan favorite everywhere. PPV Posters resembled the Attitude Era posters.
 
#459 ·
Re: Attitude Era

Majority of '97 I wouldn't really call it that, most of that year was the USA vs. Canada storyline which was too traditional to be Attitude Era, the Hart Foundation will always be New Generation Era IMO. Foreign countries still hadn't warm up to Austin yet. PPV posters most of the year still resembled the New Generation Era style.

Towards the end of the year though yes, especially with the creation of DX and Montreal. Also that was when Austin became a fan favorite everywhere. PPV Posters resembled the Attitude Era posters.

In a commentary promo on Monday Night Raw some time around December 1996 or Jan 97 Shawn Michaels referred to the 'new attitude' in the WWF (at the time). I think Sid attacked Jose Lothario or his son backstage or something. Also, WWF magazine did an article on said new attitude in early 97.
 
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