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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

1M views 21K replies 320 participants last post by  Skins 
#1 ·
#11,823 ·
In all fairness; Big Show killing pretty much EVERYBODY in 2006 was pretty fucking awesome.

He might actually be my darkhorse for worker of the year that year if Benoit/Finlay didn't rule so much. Show was certainly the best all around character in 2006 from where I sit, very Mark Henry HALL OF PAIN-ESQUE.
 
#11,824 ·
Val kind of lucked out with Rikishi putting his hands/wrists down on the splash to absorb some impact. He shouldn't have though. Rikishi looked to have hurt himself pretty bad by doing so. Not withstanding that Val def felt the brunt of a 400 pound splash from about oh...15 feet oh so.

Spot is still surreal.
 
#11,827 ·
Angle's pretty horrible but at the end of the day its all subjective and if he entertains you and puts out matches that cater more to your preferred tastes then there's nothing wrong with considering him an all time great. Clique is one of the greatest advocates for Angle as a worker on here and despite my highly contrary belief I've never even come close to an argument with him, simply because he argues himself perfectly and treats those with a differing viewpoint with respect. I come out of discussions with him far more tempted to watch an Angle match and see if I can uncover a performance that makes me think a little better of him, rather than a typical Angle discussion where I want to watch Carlito/Ken Kennedy to escape me from the doldrums of a tiresome argument.

That No Surrender '10 match is shockingly bad however. I mean, there are a lot of guys here that think less of Angle than others would imagine, but that was truly putrid and arguably the worst example of his weaknesses and faults. It was just shambolic with sloppy transitions, bumps, sequences and spots being tossed out for no discernable reason, lazy setups for the Ankle lock sequences and counters, Angle getting legit broken ribs from a Swanton to the floor in the first ten minutes, Hardy forgetting about the ankle the minute they go into sudden death after being trapped in it for numerous minutes prior to the initial draw, finishers being exchanged and kicked out of repeatedly killing the drama, ANOTHER interference leading to another sudden death spell before the most ridiculous copout ending. The rematch on IMPACT wasn't that much better and featured one of the worst sequences I've seen where Angle hits two angle slams in a row, Hardy kicks out nonshalantly and Tenay has the most timid expression to a finisher kickout I've heard, Angle then stalks Hardy and proceeds to lock on a body scissors sleeper. It was just laughable.

Still, he has some great performances in his time and with the right opponent he can be led into a structure that highlights his strengths and cleverly limits his faults. Of course if you're someone who generally loves him anyway then he's the dogs bollocks 99% of the time anyway. Healthy discussion and disagreement is perfectly fine with guys like Angle. Where it falls apart is when one party cannot approach the discussion without throwing childish remarks simply because they disagee with the other person.

You also get clowns who will argue 'but Angle won a gold medal' as a legitimate reason to him being a better worker than guys as well, something that no matter how many times I try and understand I simply can never grasp.
 
#11,828 ·
Finally watched TLC IV for the first time. Jeff Hardy taking that back body drop out to the floor was nuts. The end was flat to me with Kane coming back after being out of the ring for like 10 minutes. By the time he came back I forgot he was even in the match. It was pretty good but doesn't hold a candle to 2 or 3.

Finished this a few minutes ago. Very fun match, though I too forgot about Kane.

Decided to skip HBK/Sid for MITB II and...why the fuck is Lashley in this match?

Edit - Just hit me, he was Vinny Mac's personal masturbation material.
 
#11,829 ·
Yeah, I have to be 'in the zone' when it comes to watching long matches, even if they just so happen to be all time classics such as arguably the greatest North American match ever (Flair-Steamboat COTC, Flair-Windham BOTB II). I just don't have the attention span alot of the time to sit down and watch a wrestling match that goes over 35-40 minutes long unless I really feel like it.

I'm getting back into watching full PPVs again for review purposes though, since most of the time they usually offer a wide variety of styles and gimmicks and the like.
totally agree I thought I was the only one that has this probelm, I some times have the attention span of a dog lol I checked out that TNA thiple threat match ****1/4-1/2 good stuff, spotfest but fun
 
#11,830 · (Edited)
How much was it? Might need to get my hands on that.
Seabs has a 22 disc (might be a tad less/more) Danielson ROH comp covering his entire '05-06 title reign as well which I've seen the listing for and is ridiculously awesome looking. That 18 month stretch was Bryan's peak as a worker imo. He was always a great hand capable of delivering some well worked technical matches with a mix of the European style and stiff striking intertwined, but that heel run demonstrated his character work and ability to work as an expressive and captivating performer in ways that exposed new depth to his work. He went from being a generally consistent technical worker into one of the finest performers on the roster, able to work just as well selling, stooging and working basic holds as he was working mind blowing technical exchanges. Its why anyone with a lick of common sense and knowledge of his work knew he was very much cut from the same cloth as Punk in being able to adapt and shine in the WWE environment where he'd be afforded a less expansive moveset and forced to rely on the fundamentals of wrestling instead.


edit: re. attention spans and watching longer matches. Generally I don't have much of an issue sitting through a long match. As long as one performer or both are adding something to the match, be it character work, playing to a crowd, stooing or the actual wrestling sequences I typically can remian fully invested in the work. Then again, I managed to be entertained by a 25 minute headlock sequence during the Butch Reed/Flair Mid South match from '85 so maybe I'm not human *.

*Of course is pure hyperbole. Anyone who sees that headlock sequence can attest Reed has one of the best headlocks they've ever seen and that Flair suitably works and fights within the hold to make it a key segment of the match and not a mere resthold.
 
#11,831 · (Edited)
His entire championship run (title matches + matches he was in while champ) is on XWT. 54 matches in all.

I've said it in other parts of this site that in his championship run you can see him try to be a good heel in his first defense vs Aries from that set and watch him tone it down until he hit the perfect amount and it really was perfect.
 
#11,832 ·
What's most impressive is how versatile his matches and defences were. He worked the technical and chain wrestling driven defences against Nigel perfectly, demonstrating how great a champion and talent he was but heeling it up just enough for the matches to have depth and each sequence and battle to advance the story (no matter how much I detest the stupidity on Nigel and Bryan's parts in executing the hideous unprotected ringpost bumps spot the Unified finish with the elbows on Nigel's bloodied head is still a lasting ROH memory). Then he worked as the 00s version of Flair when facing Strong and stooging and continually trying to find ways to control the match. The way he put over Strong as being seemingly unbeatable on every night they faced was just remarkable and it produced some of the best ROH title matchups with a genuinly strong character dynamic with the vanilla but likeable Strong up against the devious and cunning Danielson. Then toss in how he worked against Joe at FOC and the Cage rematch, the Hero defence during the ROH/CZW build, the Alex Shelley title defence, working Lance Storm in his return match and then the great Cabana matches and how he works with a legit separated shoulder and desperately tries to salvage his title.

The Homicide Final Battle '06 match is pretty stellar and a really great Danielson take on a Kawada title match imo. Just the way he gradually lets the damaged shoulder overcome him and hinder his ability, culminating in the final exchange where one choice blow to the arm renders him immobile long enough for Homicide to finally dethrone him was just immaculate storytelling.
 
#11,834 ·
What's most impressive is how versatile his matches and defences were. He worked the technical and chain wrestling driven defences against Nigel perfectly, demonstrating how great a champion and talent he was but heeling it up just enough for the matches to have depth and each sequence and battle to advance the story (no matter how much I detest the stupidity on Nigel and Bryan's parts in executing the hideous unprotected ringpost bumps spot the Unified finish with the elbows on Nigel's bloodied head is still a lasting ROH memory). Then he worked as the 00s version of Flair when facing Strong and stooging and continually trying to find ways to control the match. The way he put over Strong as being seemingly unbeatable on every night they faced was just remarkable and it produced some of the best ROH title matchups with a genuinly strong character dynamic with the vanilla but likeable Strong up against the devious and cunning Danielson. Then toss in how he worked against Joe at FOC and the Cage rematch, the Hero defence during the ROH/CZW build, the Alex Shelley title defence, working Lance Storm in his return match and then the great Cabana matches and how he works with a legit separated shoulder and desperately tries to salvage his title.
That last part reminds me of one of my favorite all time matches when KENTA tries to destroy his arm at GBH. I just saw that Hero defense for the first time a few days ago and I wasn't expecting much* and it was incredible. ****1/4+

*because their match in '09 in PWG sucked imo. One rare instance of trying to make epic happen and it not happening.
 
#11,835 ·
Batista/Trips HIAC. Every time I see this thing it manages to get even more gruesome. I can't believe half the shit they pulled in this match and I was suddenly struck with the thought that so many people were going crazy for two men bleeding like stuck pigs and hitting each other with barbed wire. And they say we have evolved as a species since the days of the Gladiators 8*D. My random thought of the day. Moving on....this match is just fantastic and I mean fantastic. So brutal with the chain whipping and the barbed wire steel chair shots to both the back and head to name but a few. I love the underlying sentiment that Batista is champion, he has beat HHH but he's still unproven to some degree and that THIS is where he's going to earn his stripes. Then you've got the whole HHH undefeated in the cell thing and the fact that this is their third match together. Something's got to give. I'm almost inclined to go the full 5* on this but something is holding me back. I mean, it's truly awesome but not a perfect match. It's not a 4.5* match either because it's better than that so naturally that makes it a comfortable ****3/4.

So glad I bought this HIAC set. Going to watch some UNDERTAKER tomorrow.
 
#11,839 ·
That last part reminds me of one of my favorite all time matches when KENTA tries to destroy his arm at GBH. I just saw that Hero defense for the first time a few days ago and I wasn't expecting much* and it was incredible. ****1/4+

*because their match in '09 in PWG sucked imo. One rare instance of trying to make epic happen and it not happening.
Ah, forgot the KENTA matches. Yes the first encounter (Glory By Honor V Night II I think) is tremendous and a lot of that is down to one of Danielson's finest performances. I'm generally not a huge fan of KENTA bar when he works against the heavyweights as I find his offence far more engrossing and think he's underrated in shining in that environment, though stick him with someone closer to his size and I generally struggle to like much bar the great SUWA match from NOAH in '05. Still, he was perfect as the international sensation picking apart a broken and fragile champion but Danielson's herculean effort in wrestling back control of the match marked a defining moment in his title reign. The fact he was still able to work afterwards as a cocky heel is exemplary and testament to his ability to portray a true champion here but not evoke a necessary face turn.

Haven't seen the Hero '09 match for some time (Guerre Sans Frontieres?) but I really dug their BOLA 11/2/08 match. 15 minutes and sees Danielson coming in with a damaged leg. Hero is great in respectfully choosing to stay away from the leg before immediately seizing upon it once Danielson gets the better of him. From there you get Hero as the vicious, methodical and brutal dissector and Danielson working underneath and trying to find a way to overcome certain defeat. Even the Danielson dive spot works through its timing as Danielson having to use everything to try and put Hero down, even at the expense of the leg.

Danielson/Low Ki from JAPW '02 is also an overlooked but wonderful Danielson match. Its a submission match and the camera angle is right underneath the action and you get to see the intricacies of every escape and counter. Unlike your typical indy mat wrestling though there's a real sense of bite and struggle in every transition (think Benoit/Finlay esque) and as a result it becomes highly engrossing and not a choreographed exhibition. If you haven't seen it I'd highly recommend it if you could obtain a link since its seemingly hard to track down.
 
#11,840 ·
Sorry I just couldn't stand both Brock/HHH matches. Probably because it could be so so much better. This was a dream match in 02. Id give they're SS match ***1/4 rating.
 
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