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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

2M views 21K replies 512 participants last post by  Starbuck 
#1 ·
#18,881 ·
Meh. Someone doesn't need mic skills to be a star. Another WWE philosophy I'll never buy into. If you got the goods in other outlets you'll be fine. And yes, case and point is always going to be Bret Hart or Chris Benoit. Is Jack Swagger on their level? Sure, why not. He's a really good wrestler. Can't talk a lick. Seems about fair company. Granted Benoit is the best of the bunch. Only he lacked a "pop" if you know what I mean.

This doesn't go into "successes" by the way. Let me throw that out there.
 
#18,882 ·
If Swagger can get on a roll in the ring like 08/09 then he could really be great with Zeb doing his talking too. But its not as easy when he has a bunch of different talent to work with. No Christian (though could happen, he's due back any time, right?), no Finlay, no Hardy etc. Excepted more from the Danielson match though. If that happened in ECW 09 it would have been a strong contender for MOTY you gotta believe.
 
#18,884 ·
For the love of god Christian needs to come back now. Still wanting Christian/Cesaro again. Also, if Jericho was going to stay long time I'd have loved to see them bring back Jericho/Christian as a team for a bit.

And speaking of WCW midcard/jobbers, how about 3 COUNT?!
 
#18,885 · (Edited)
Meh. Someone doesn't need mic skills to be a star. Another WWE philosophy I'll never buy into. If you got the goods in other outlets you'll be fine. And yes, case and point is always going to be Bret Hart or Chris Benoit. Is Jack Swagger on their level? Sure, why not. He's a really good wrestler. Can't talk a lick. Seems about fair company. Granted Benoit is the best of the bunch. Only he lacked a "pop" if you know what I mean.

This doesn't go into "successes" by the way. Let me throw that out there.
He's not though. Bret and Benoit were much better wrestlers and they were some of the best, if not the best, in the company at the time. Swagger's a good wrestler, but I don't think he would make my 10 of in-ring workers in the company right now. Benoit (not to sure on Bret) was at least passable on the mic, whereas Swagger is an abomination on it. Bad comparisons imo.

EDIT:

For the love of god Christian needs to come back now. Still wanting Christian/Cesaro again. Also, if Jericho was going to stay long time I'd have loved to see them bring back Jericho/Christian as a team for a bit.
THIS. I want my all time favorite wrestler back already, I'd have him face Cesaro at Mania for the US Title, what a match that could be, and I'd have Christian win because do you know he hasn't been on a Mania card since WrestleMania 26, and hasn't won at Mania since WrestleMania 20. So I would give Christian the meaningful win that he deserves at Mania, Christian gets the US Title, a title he hasn't won before, and Cesaro moves up the card. Everyone wins.
 
#18,888 ·
Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker (some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.) & blah on the mic. Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only to remain at that level on this go around.
 
#18,890 ·
WWE literally gave us no reason to care about Swagger the moment he got moved from ECW. No surprise people don't give a fuck about him. They never really build him up. He won the WHC with zero build and looked like a chump in the process. Then he lost it and disappeared into the bottom of the card again. Now he's returned after disappearing completely for months and earns a WHC match at WM? Yeah ok. I'm sure fans will buy into him as a potential WHC again in 7 weeks :side:.
 
#18,891 ·
Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker (some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.) & blah on the mic. Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only remain at that level on this go.
Right now with Swagger I think the forum's hivemind is in the skeptical stage. They're not sure whether or not it's cool to hop on the fandom train yet. Once they eventually do in a few months, he'll be booming on here. Then give it another 3 or 4 months and suddenly he's stale and the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling. It's the circle of life.
 
#18,892 · (Edited)
People have bought into Del Rio as World Champ lickity split. I don't see a need for a double standard here.

@Brye - the backlash or boom for him is going to be cringeworthy no matter what. I guess the love train would be a bit more tolerable considering atm the loathing towards the man is highly questionable. At least the way Cal point it out has some clarity. That's why building him up right now is key.
 
#18,893 ·
People have bought into Del Rio as champ? I'm gonna need a list of names and addresses. People need a SLAPPING.

I think its different with heels though. As a babyface Del Rio can pander to the crowd and overcome giant odds (Big Show) and the casuals think he's uber awesome and a great champ. Swagger needs a LOT more work to be credible in their eyes I think, regardless of how good he can actually be.
 
#18,895 ·
Go read the posts on this place. It's Viva Del Rio right now.

It's why I mentioned the build atm. He's been on a tear since returning. Henry is getting the same booking although when he was last seen he was jobbing left and right. I know he's a beast, but point being it's not much of a stretch of difference if you set the tone for how the booking will be. It's all about how they choose to book Swagger from here on out. If well, it could work wonders for him possibly. If not, then it's back into obscurity for the Oakie. It's a simple enough scenario. I'm just not gonna rule it out yet b/c of the way the original went. He's getting a second chance. Shouldn't that earn a bit of praise for WWE trying to own up on a mistake and save a career?
 
#18,896 ·
I have little faith in WWE a lot of the time so while they DO seem to be re-building Swagger atm... I'm not sure how long it will last :p. Hopefully as we continue to WM he gets to beat someone with... credibility. So far it's been losers like Ryder and Kofi. Bryan is the best he's had so far in a singles match. I'm still holding out a little though. WWE tend to get me into someone they just kill him dead randomly.
 
#18,897 ·
I don't blame you for having the jaded mindset. I normally do myself. Right now the two angles that have my attention captured - Shield & Swagger + Dutch - are working at this moment. Feeling as if they'll continue to go strong in the coming weeks. I know it's wishful thinking, but I'll go along with it. If I get egg on my face one more time...well, so be it. *sigh if is becomes a reality.*
 
#18,898 ·
*gets the eggs ready*

:p

I really do HOPE that they do well with Swagger, I was one of the original Swagger fans around here (watched some of his stuff in FCW before he came to ECW and liked him). But any time they appear to do something with him they cut off his balls and send him packing. STOP IT WWWE.
 
#18,900 ·
Exactly. Nobody cared about Bret Hart's promos. They were there and yet fans got engrossed in his work. Yes, once again, successes breed different scenarios. I get that. Put that in the back of your mind and strip it down to the bare minimum. It's fairly identical. Quality worker (some don't even think Bret was THAT good, tbhayley.) & blah on the mic. Doesn't mean they couldn't add something to the table. Bret clearly did. I see no reason why Swagger couldn't develop into a credible heel main eventer once again. Only to remain at that level on this go around.
And the only thing Swagger brings to the table is sometimes good, not great matches (just going on his recent work) - and that's all. He's never going to have any memorable promos because he sucks terribly on the mic, and Zeb Colter is handling everything from a character perspective atm for him.

From what I've read on here, the general consensus on Swagger atm is: that new character is good, the new theme is good, his new manager Zeb is great, but Swagger is just Swagger, that goofy looking guy who can't cut a promo to save his life and was jobbed out for two years so it brings his credibility into question that now he's suddenly in a World Title match at WrestleMania after suddenly returning. They're building him up again, but they need to do a lot more. Why is the contender for the World Title beating guys like Zack Ryder, when a guy like Mark Henry is going over guys like Randy Orton when he doesn't have a World Title match?

And as far as all this Del Rio talk goes, I'm still not a fan of him, but I can admit he's more tolerable as a face now and his matches are more interesting due to him implementing new moves into his matches. He's much more natural as a face and it shows. But I don't like that he's only pushed for being Mexican and the fact that he's made Ziggler tap out like three times in two weeks, that doesn't make your future World Champion look good at all, but that's more WWE's crappy booking fault.

Had to write out this reply twice because my computer deleted my reply the first time when I was nearly finished. :side:
 
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