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NATE > Knicks

348K views 9K replies 149 participants last post by  Magic 
#1 ·
Season starts tonight!

New season = new thread.

Get your predictions in and what not. Some of you have done that already in the off-season thread.

Tonights predictions:

Wizards at Cavs
Celtics at Heat
Mavs at Lakers
 
#6,847 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

So Howard being a shell is an excuse? Bynum hasn't even played a game. If the trade never happened, then LA would be in an even worse spot right now.
 
#6,849 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

So Howard being a shell is an excuse? Bynum hasn't even played a game. If the trade never happened, then LA would be in an even worse spot right now.
Not a excuse just a fact. And yeah Lakers would be munch worse off with Bynum missing entire season. Anyone that watched Howard in Orlando days knows he was way better player. He was more explosive I believe Dwight lost some athleticism with the back surgery. He just doesn't looks like same player anymore. It's not to say he's not good cause he is still force on defense.
 
#6,848 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

The Lakers are 14-6 over their last 20. The majority of their wins have come against lottery teams. Against playoff teams they're 4-5.

Yes I'm aware it's the NBA and stuff like this happens a lot, but I didn't find Miami beating Orlando impressive either.

Kobe is having his best season in years, yes, I'm not denying that. However, if he's so great his team wouldn't be this bad. I just can't see another elite player in the NBA playing with Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash and still struggling to make the playoffs. CP3 was taking David West and role players to the playoffs every year in New Orleans. LeBron took a bunch of scrubs to the Finals. Durant with a big Dwight would be crazy. Carmelo has never missed the playoffs in his career.
 
#6,851 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

The Lakers are 14-6 over their last 20. The majority of their wins have come against lottery teams. Against playoff teams they're 4-5.

Yes I'm aware it's the NBA and stuff like this happens a lot, but I didn't find Miami beating Orlando impressive either.

Kobe is having his best season in years, yes, I'm not denying that. However, if he's so great his team wouldn't be this bad. I just can't see another elite player in the NBA playing with Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash and still struggling to make the playoffs. CP3 was taking David West and role players to the playoffs every year in New Orleans. LeBron took a bunch of scrubs to the Finals. Durant with a big Dwight would be crazy. Carmelo has never missed the playoffs in his career.
Yeah they are big names on paper but near the players they used to be. Dwight Howard actually can be curse in 4th quarter due to god awful free throw shooting. Hack a Howard happened few times last night like it has all season long. Nash is basically spot up shooter now nothing wrong with it he's 39 years old nearing the end of his playing career. lol Durant has better coaching and better players around him than Kobe does. Also with the bench. Durant gets more calls than anyone you touch him and it's a automatic foul. So? Lakers in playoffs 2011 beat CP3 and Hornets. Yeah Lebron took scrubs to finals but back than East was way way weak compared to the West when you have teams like Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Trail Blazers, etc. Back than, those teams were loaded with talent.
 
#6,850 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Dwight's still not healthy. I think he'll be better next season.

But the question is, how much of a window do the Lakers have? Nash has declined since leaving Phoenix and he's pushing 40. Pau has gotten worse every year for the past three seasons. I don't know if Kobe will be able to duplicate this level of play for next season.

I originally said the Lakers with this current core they have had a two-year window at best, but I don't know if that's true anymore.
 
#6,853 · (Edited)
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Dwight's still not healthy. I think he'll be better next season.

But the question is, how much of a window do the Lakers have? Nash has declined since leaving Phoenix and he's pushing 40. Pau has gotten worse every year for the past three seasons. I don't know if Kobe will be able to duplicate this level of play for next season.

I originally said the Lakers with this current core they have had a two-year window at best, but I don't know if that's true anymore.
With current roster 1 to 2 years max. They are old and time is ticking away. I believe Kobe can play until late 30's and average 20 or 25 up to him if wants keep playing or retire. 2014 right around the corner they will have to get young FA star. Kyrie Irving for example.
 
#6,859 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I'm aware that you said 2014. But the Lakers aren't getting Kyrie Irving then. He's gonna be in Cleveland for at least the next 4-5 years.
We shall see. I wouldent rule it out. Who knows for all we know Lebron can become a Laker come 2014 when his contract is up along with Miami Heat being over the cap. They will have to dump some salary. God I hope not though. Lebron in Lakers uniform would make me sick.:mad:
 
#6,861 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

How would it make you sick lol? He's the best player in the NBA.
Never been fan and always find him to be tad bit overrated when media (ESPN) puts him into MJ and Kobe conversation already after 1 single title. Great player and amazing talent just never enjoyed watching him play he wins with athleticism and size. With little basketball skill. I find that boring to watch personally. I enjoy fundamentals, footwork, will, mindset, skill, over strength, size, and power. But hey, it's just me.
 
#6,863 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I understand where you're coming from about not liking his style of play and feeling the media overrates him. Right now it's pretty obvious Kobe & Jordan have the better careers. Maybe LeBron could surpass Kobe when his career ends depending on how many more rings and MVPs he wins, maybe not.

But I'd love to have LeBron on the Celtics.
 
#6,864 · (Edited)
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I understand where you're coming from about not liking his style of play and feeling the media overrates him. Right now it's pretty obvious Kobe & Jordan have the better careers. Maybe LeBron could surpass Kobe when his career ends depending on how many more rings and MVPs he wins, maybe not.

But I'd love to have LeBron on the Celtics.
Yep he does have a chance to surpass Kobe but not MJ in my book after 2011 finals choke job and getting swept by the Spurs in 2007 finals. I actually like Celtics KG other than Kobe he's been favorite player for past 10 years. Weird me being Lakers fan I know, I just love his intensity other than Duncan he's been 2nd best PF for last decade. HOF top 15-20 player of all-time.
 
#6,865 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

KG's my favorite athlete of all-time, was so thrilled when the Celtics acquired him. He wasted too many years in Minnesota.

I think the Lakers were trying to trade for him when he was in Minnesota before they got Pau too. Kobe & KG on the same team would've been a nightmare for opposing teams. Especially those two in their prime. Two aggressive players that would do anything to win.
 
#6,866 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

KG's my favorite athlete of all-time, was so thrilled when the Celtics acquired him. He wasted too many years in Minnesota.

I think the Lakers were trying to trade for him when he was in Minnesota before they got Pau too. Kobe & KG on the same team would've been a nightmare for opposing teams. Especially those two in their prime. Two aggressive players that would do anything to win.
Nice atleast we can agree on that. But yeah prime Kobe and along KG would of won several if not more titles together. That's one thing always loved about KG being so extremely loyal to franchise and sometimes it hurts him to a vault. I wish he would of got out of Minnesota sooner and was traded to contender. He could won championships as the man with right pieces around him.
 
#6,872 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

i don't care about the lakers making the playoffs, it'll lessen my excitement for the first round if the 1-10 against the top four seeds translates into the playoffs.

they should get a dwight cam allows you to watch him observe the game since that's all he's good for a nowadays.
 
#6,875 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Rings hold precedent over any statistical argument unless we're talking baseball or collegiate athletics. NBA and NFL fans are conditioned that way, the rings defense is only applied to defenses and quarterbacks in the NFL but you get the point.
 
#6,878 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

This argument is really stupid b/c RUDY GAY surpasses everyone. He's the GOAT swingman who swindled a team into giving him the max when he can't shoot. How many players can you name that have matched this feat? I'm waiting.

Joe Johnson would be a GOAT swindler if he wasn't so boring and his partner puts me to sleep. I shouldn't be slandering him after going off on the Wizards yesterday so I won't mention the system player. Gerald Wallace is another GOAT swindler.
 
#6,879 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I really don't see what's so bad about thinking LeBron with 3 rings, 3 Finals MVP and one or two MVP's can be argued to have a superior career than Kobe. At that point all Kobe would really have over him is longevity and two more rings.

I would also take peak LeBron over peak Kobe. Just my opinion. I'm not about to get into a Kobe/LeBron argument.

But here's a better way to end the argument. RUSSELL > Both.
 
#6,931 · (Edited)
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I really don't see what's so bad about thinking LeBron with 3 rings, 3 Finals MVP and one or two MVP's can be argued to have a superior career than Kobe. At that point all Kobe would really have over him is longevity and two more rings.

I would also take peak LeBron over peak Kobe. Just my opinion. I'm not about to get into a Kobe/LeBron argument.

But here's a better way to end the argument. RUSSELL > Both.
I wouldn't say superior career IF Lebron does that might have be 4 rings but better overall sure. I truly believe peak Kobe was just better player than peak Lebron was. It really comes down to what do you prefer. If I am starting team with great talent around me with any of these positions such as dominate center, SF, PF, and PG I'll take Kobe. Likewise, if have little to no talent with a team filled with below average players I'll take Lebron.

Kobe better in these areas:
Shooting
Scoring
Clutch
Longevity
Footwork
Skilled superior basketball skills like MJ, Bird, and Magic were.
Higher basketball IQ
Better winner
Handles (ball handling)
On the ball defender.
Post up game, midrange, and 3 point shooting.
Free throw shooting


Lebron better in these areas:
Passing
Assist
Rebounding
Blocking shoots
Superior Athlete
More versatile on D and O. Can play more positions on Defense and Offense.
Unstoppable driving to the lane.
Higher FG%
Makes his teammates around him player better.



This is my view on it.
 
#6,880 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

DeAndre Jordan and Roy Hibbert have the potential to be great swindlers. McGee is productive but paying him that much to play 18 minutes is a crime. The only thing he's good for is destroying Shaq and the segment that keeps him on TNT.
 
#6,882 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Kobe has never been at the level LeBron has been the last year and a half (i'm talking all around play here.. TS, FG percentage, Assisting, rebounding, efficency, hell even defending, etc I know prime Kobe could be considered a better scorer). and LeBron has multiple other seasons that are flat out statistically stronger than anything Kobe has put up.

Actually.. Individually, LeBron has had 5+ seasons better than Kobe's best. There's no statistical argument against that.
 
#6,883 · (Edited)
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

^^^see, this is why I can't take you seriously. Kobe was a better defender than Lebron is now, easily, and that isn't even a question. He could guard the opposing best player THROUGHOUT the game while Lebron usually only does that in the fourth to conserve his energy. I can give you some of the other things but if you actually think Lebron was the better defender because he's the best now than you're ignorant as Kobe was the best defender that wasn't a big for a long ass time and was actually elite, he earned the first team defensive selections. Yes I know recently he's just been given them, since 2010/2011, but for the majority of his career he dominated the defensive end.


The stats argument is retarded, Lebron has padded his stats throughout his career and that's pretty much a fact in my eyes. Aside from that, let's think about Kobe's stats for a second as he's ranked among the best throughout the past decade+ in assists, rebounds, and steals for his career. Are those that stats you're referring to mark? The ones that Lebron averages 7/8 in regularly? That's cool, except Lebron runs an ALL ABOUT ME offense wherever he goes while Kobe has been in a system for most of his career. Kobe is JUST as good of a passer as Lebron, if you don't believe me then you don't watch him when he actually tries to be a playmaker. He's not the same level rebounder, but Lebron has a couple of inches and a lot of weight on him, but for his positio.and will last a lot longer than Lebron's, no was never able to guard all 5 positions but that has to due with Lebron's physical attributes once again rather than some talent gap. They're both incredible scorers.

The biggest difference between the two is Lebron has a huge advantage in height, weight, and just pure athleticism. Kobe can't compare in that regard as it's not something you can work on, but as far as talent and utilizing said talent throughout their careers Kobe has a noticeable edge on him as he had to work without that athleticism. Not to mention Kobe was one of the best rebounding guard with a bunch of AMAZING rebounders on his team. He's had Shaq, Malone, lolKwame, Pau, Odom, Bynu, and now Dwight on his team grabbing the majority of his rebounds while the only good rebounder Lebron has ever really had on his team was Vaj and Boozer for that short period of time.
 
#6,885 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I'm aware of that, which is why I never said Kobe was the way better scorer. He has more moves and more all around game, but Lebron has added an amazing post game, which is once again benefited by his physical attributes, and has actually hit the three ball incredibly well this year, especially when a player sags off him waiting for the drive.

tbh I just hate this stats argument, if you watch Lebron and tell me that he doesn't get to pad his stats due to the LEBRON system they play in(which works incredibly well with the Heat btw, not so much the Cavs) than you're delusional. I'm not trying to underrate him or say that what he's doing isn't impressive, I just find the statistical arguments as to why he's better than Kobe ridiculous. Even Jordan had that type of system before Phil joined the team, it doesn't lead to championships unless you have an amazing supporting cast like the one Lebron has, otherwise it is a superior system that wins championships.
 
#6,886 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Yeah, I was reaching with the defense comment, prime Kobe could be considered a better defender.. Though it depends on what the criteria is considering Lebron could guard 1-5..(I hate using that argument since it's been played out to death).

You could say Kobe's just as good as a playmaker but what's the evidence? A sample size of 20-30 games his entire career? Just because he's shown he could be doesn't mean he is.

Honestly, i'm not trying to discredit Kobe here.. He's a top ten (could make a case for top five) player for sure.. It just doesn't make sense to me when people discredit Lebron just to validate Kobe.
 
#6,887 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Yeah, I was reaching with the defense comment, prime Kobe could be considered a better defender.. Though it depends on what the criteria is considering Lebron could guard 1-5..(I hate using that argument since it's been played out to death).

You could say Kobe's just as good as a playmaker but what's the evidence? A sample size of 20-30 games his entire career? Just because he's shown he could be doesn't mean he is.

Honestly, i'm not trying to discredit Kobe here.. He's a top ten (could make a case for top five) player for sure.. It just doesn't make sense to me when people discredit Lebron just to validate Kobe.

tbf, I just don't like things like "if Lebron does this and this he's better than Kobe". Can we actually let the guy do such things and then begin talking about whether or not he's better than Kobe? It's the random hypothetical scenarios that annoy me more than Lebron one day being better than Kobe because if he does it then he does, but if it's just some made up thing that he could potentially do than that obviously annoys me as a Kobe fan as currently he is better than Lebron in all time rankings.
 
#6,889 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

Only year I'd say LeBron choked in Cleveland was in 2010. Some would say 2007 as well but I don't. There was really nothing LeBron could do. He was essentially playing 1 on 5 against an elite defense and none of his teammates stepped up. None.

LeBron played his ass off in 2008 and 2009. Especially 2009. LeBron averaged almost 40 PPG against Orlando in 2009.
 
#6,890 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I like how in that post by notorious he said it's ridiculous to give credit to every win/success to Kobe and not blame him for any failures/losses but then goes onto blame Lebron's supporting cast for all their failures while giving him ALL the credit for their success. :kobe
 
#6,892 ·
Re: "MONTA ELLIS HAVE IT ALL!"

I'm not giving LeBron credit for all their successes.

I've acknowledged before that his supporting cast performed great in the regular season and fit around him perfectly. But in the playoffs they all seemed to choke, LeBron included at some points.

And it's different generally with LeBron's perception amongst the majority of fans and the media. LeBron gets all the credit if they win and all the blame if they lose.
 
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