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Has Anyone Noticed Something About Indy "breakouts" in recent years

5K views 48 replies 20 participants last post by  Issues_Sunshyne 
#1 · (Edited)
Kevin Steen, Tyler black, Davey Richards,Rukus, Joey Ryan, Rockstar Spud, Martin Stone are all guys that rose to the top of their respective territoies BUT ONLY AFTER guys like Bryan Danielson,Jody Fleish, Joe, McGuiness,Amazing Red,Punk, Styles, Daniels, MCMG, Kaz, Doug Williams,Jack Evans,Messiah, Burchill,Flash Barker, Low Ki etc either retired semi retired or went elsewhere (TNA/WWE/Japan/Mexico)

are we just lowering our standards? were the former really just held back? or is there something im missing here?
 
#2 ·
I can't say I understand what you're saying 100%? Do you mean that these wrestlers only came to prominence by filling spots that their predecessors vacated? I would think that's just the way it goes and always has done.

I can't say I completely understood though. From what I could gather, instantly I thought that wrestling moves forward and they picked up the ball that the others had put down to move on.
 
#6 ·
I don't think we're lowering out standards or anything at all. It's creating new stars. Everyone you mentioned as the 'new breed' has evolved a lot since the older guys left. They worked hard, were given the ball when the older guys left, and they ran with it and made it successful. Kevin Steen is a great example. He is, and always was a good wrestler, but it's only since he turned on Generico that he started getting really over, and it came at a good time because ROH lost Danielson, McGuinness, and Tyler Black around the same time (year) that storyline was going on (If memory serves me well). And while it's not indy, another good example is John Cena. I remember watching him debut against Kurt Angle in the opening match of Smackdown, now he's the guy.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I don't think we're lowering out standards or anything at all. It's creating new stars. Everyone you mentioned as the 'new breed' has evolved a lot since the older guys left. They worked hard, were given the ball when the older guys left, and they ran with it and made it successful. Kevin Steen is a great example. He is, and always was a good wrestler, but it's only since he turned on Generico that he started getting really over, and it came at a good time because ROH lost Danielson, McGuinness, and Tyler Black around the same time (year) that storyline was going on (If memory serves me well)..
my point is, would these guys have gotten over or gotten the spotlight if the indy stars of before were still sround and would be considered their equal

i mean Mark Henry got "over" recently but considering he's been around for like 20 years i wager that its because the crowds standards have finally been lowered to where Mark Henry can be considered "some kind of substance", this is the kind of progress one should expect from early 20th century wrestling territories

And while it's not indy, another good example is John Cena. I remember watching him debut against Kurt Angle in the opening match of Smackdown, now he's the guy.
ironically he was used better back then than recent years, lol
 
#9 ·
The top Indy guys aren't as good as the top Indy guys from pre 09. If that's what you mean then yeah, the quality standard of Indy workers has dropped. That's only inevitable though when you lose so many of the best Indy workers in a short space of time and you get left with a bunch of average workers all working with each other.
 
#12 ·
The problem is that they all left so quickly. I mean look at an ROH/PWG show from a few years ago and see who the top guys are. It's totally different now. Had it been a more gradual change I think everything in indy wrestling would be a lot better.

I don't think the top indy guys now are bad though (well most of them). I'm huge fans of Steen, Generico, Sami Callihan, Gargano, Chuck Taylor Adam Cole, and a lot of other guys that are working a ton of indy shows all over the country. One huge issue is that these guys don't work all the same shows. Evolve/DGUSA and ROH but having their own rosters as weakened the overall quality of indy wresting. Gargano can't go to ROH and Steen isn't going to show up on an Evolve show.
 
#11 ·
I just think the indy boom that generated alot of those names was kinda once in a lifetime, literally all those names kinda showed up once wcw and ecw closed.....meaning there was nowhere for them to go. They had watched these comapanies as children and dreamed to wretle for them now they coudln't so they busted their asses to make sure they made their names known.

Plus i think the indies as far as companies were a little more stingy on who got to work shows.....most were run by Old school workers or atleast people in the business. Now any guy with 50 bucks can run an indy and any kid with spray painted kickpads and a knowledge of how to fake strong style or lucha can be a wreslter.

This is no hate on some of the actual talent out there now....guys like gargano, callihan, generico, the bucks. But for everyone one of them there are a thousand Joe blows... who copy the moveset of indy wrestlings past and yell alot.
 
#13 ·
To me it seems like Bryan Danielsson, CM Punk and that generation of indy-stars worked wonders for the indy-scene but have collectively failed to re-ignite any interest in the WWE or TNA.

Todays indy-stars could probably do as well if not better in TNA and WWE than CM Punk and his generation.
 
#14 ·
To me it seems like Bryan Danielsson, CM Punk and that generation of indy-stars worked wonders for the indy-scene but have collectively failed to re-ignite any interest in the WWE or TNA.

Todays indy-stars could probably do as well if not better in TNA and WWE than CM Punk and his generation.
Like who exactly? Even this generations best bunch like Generico and Cole for example couldn't do what Punk and Bryan did.

They reignited mt interest in WWE. I'm a part time viewer and it's usually Punk's and Bryan's stuff that drags me in. Summer of Punk,Bryan's heel turn and title reign, Punk's turn etc
 
#19 ·
I don't see a drastic downturn in talent level. It certainly doesn't help when there's a large number taken out of the talent pool – be that to WWE, TNA or wherever – but there's consistently always been a few closer to the top and then a wide spread of good to average folks filling out the remaining slots. Sort of like now, more or less.

Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not paying as close attention as I might have before? (life gets in the way like that)

I don't think the current crop who've come up from the indies are failing in comparison to the past, either. They can only work within what they're given/permitted. They have as much skill, more possibly, as any previous generation but also less freedom (WWE), less help from creative behind the scenes (TNA) and rather hit-or-miss booking in both.
 
#23 ·
I also think indy is being hurt now by more younger stars going to Japan or Mexico to wrestle. You look at guys like Kenny Omega, Devitt or Tama will be tearing up indies full-time. Also WWE snatches some guys before they can hit it big on the indy scene and put them in F.C.W like Corey Graves.
 
#26 ·
I think it's as simple as the current top guys didn't have the chance to rise to the top before because there were people in their way. It's like in any sport or in the acting field, people only start to rise to the top of the card after plying their trade in a supporting role for a while.
 
#28 ·
I do think WWE watchers lower their standards as well tna but this does not apply to the indies. I think people standards for the indies is too high which is why ROH get so much crap despite having a decent product. I seen someone compared PWG Steen/Generico ladder wars to the roh version and they look for every excuse to hate the roh one and actually blame roh. Puro and Lucha fans standards are good, they know good wrestling without over analyzing stuff.
 
#29 · (Edited)
puro and lucha fans(CMLL AAA NJPW) have never nessisarily had to worry about company image considering how ingrained in their respective cultures they are

also ive belived that if so many championships didnt have "world" in the title then maybe the standards would be more reasonable, i mean unless wwe has that catorgory in their current championship class then some would be interested in sub-catorgories of champions like "North American" or "Intergender" or "European" or "Hardcore/24/7" etc

Is Graves SJK? Yeah WWE really got up on him before he got chance to work all over the Indies.
he made an impression in 1pw in the uk, he was a heel there but got cheered more as time went on
 
#31 ·


i couldn't tell
 
#41 · (Edited)
COOL IT YOU B*******G B******S!!
 
#44 · (Edited)
MESSIAH, F**K YEAH!!

What, you mean cool a discussion with two complete opposite opinions because the one that opposes yours makes more sense?
can you explain it in bullet points exactly what the motivation the point and facts are please
 
#49 ·
Low-Ki has been wrestling in Japan. He was the IWGP Junior champ this year and apparently, as in I've not seen but heard great things about them, some of his matches have been outstanding, especially in the middle part of last year against Kota Ibushi. Last I know of him was him dropping the belt in around November, but I've read since that he's content over there.

Amazing Red was in TNA early 2011 and eventually had numerous things happen, Crimson was portrayed at his brother and he was under a mask for a while but wasn't used much. Think he's back on the Indies now, worked ROH at least in 2012.
 
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