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Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

123K views 687 replies 140 participants last post by  Clique 
#1 · (Edited)
This is the place to discuss the careers of your favorite wrestlers, review classic matches, historic events, share videos, and more! So start discussing topics from the WWF, NWA/WCW, ECW, and the Territories.
 
#79 ·
On the whole I'd probably say Flair's 90s promos are crazier than his 80s promos. By the mid-90s he was still going on about Space Mountain and making not-so-subtle references to fisting women, but by that point he was a crazy dude in his mid-40s. The loony shit he'd say in '85 or '86 didn't seem quite as loony since he was still in his 30s and wasn't a total psycho yet.

But that promo I was talking about in the first place is from the 80s. IIRC he was feuding with Luger at the time. It's on one of the four million discs I have lying around the house. I'll dig it out after work and find a date for it.
 
#78 · (Edited)
Speaking of Flair, while his feuds with Steamboat, Funk, Windham, and Dusty Rhodes are among the very best in his career, I think his match with Vader from Starrcade 1993 deserves some love. Flair's career was on the line, if he won, he would once again become the WHC.

Flair had just come back to WCW a few months earlier after a 2.5 year stint in the WWF. Fans were clamoring for Flair to once again wear the Big Gold belt. Flair challenged Vader and played the role of the confident, albeit nervous, veteran babyface to the tee. He absolutely nailed this role. They mentioned Flairs age throughout this feud on TV and made it seem like Flair was really struggling with whether or not he still had it or not (which, ironically enough, he actually would struggle with just a few years later).

Anyway, masterfully done feud. Flair, as I mentioned, nailed his role, as did Vader. This is when Vader was at his peak of being a big, bad, mean monster. He absolutely destroyed Flair during the course of this match, even knocking a couple of Flair's teeth out (allegedly). If this was the Vader that was in the WWF just a few years later, the sky would have been the limit for him. A must-see if you haven't seen it before: A solid ****1/2



 
#84 ·
Piece from the Observe when Austin was fired from WCW.

WCW did fire Steve Austin (Steve Williams) on 9/15. Austin, 30, was considered for years as perhaps the best young wrestler in the United States. His career languished for the past year almost to the point that he was spoken of, like his former tag partner Brian Pillman, as a wrestler who had made a lot of money by signing good contracts but had great careers ruined by a WCW organization that had been both unwilling and unable to get any wrestlers over. Austin had been in the doghouse with WCW management over the past year over a reputation for not exactly keeping quiet with his discontent about how he was used and for those involved in cost cutting seeing the $200,000 or so figure he was earning per year while not being involved in any significant programs as wasted money. While on a tour with New Japan in June, Austin tore his tricep and has been out of action since and was believed to be about six weeks from being ready to return when he was fired. This of course paints WCW as a real class organization for firing a guy while injured when he suffered the injury on a tour the company sent him on.

Austin's main problem appeared to be in the cliquish nature of WCW (which is consistent not only in wrestling but in most jobs but worse in WCW than most places obviously). He didn't hang with the right crowd. When the Hogan camp got into power, they dismissed Austin as a highly-paid wrestler who was a good worker with no charisma and in their view of wrestling, workrate meant next to nothing. The Hogan clique basically consisted of WWFers from the mid-80s when wrestling was hot and thus, could dismiss any wrestler who came along later as being "unable to draw money" (forgetting that most of those who drew money in the mid-80s became suddenly unable to draw money either when the business lost popularity). He wasn't in the Flair clique either, so nobody spoke up for his workrate on the inside at the meetings. Austin was given little chance to show his stuff after the career ending back injury of his main opponent, Rick Steamboat. Austin then suffered a knee injury which kept him out for a few months, and before he was plugged into a new planned program, a reuniting of his tag team with Brian Pillman, he went to Japan and suffered the tricep tear.

It's unknown what Austin's plans will be once he's able to return to the ring, but he would be able to get a strong spot with ECW if he would want it since he's a long-time friend of Paul Heyman, although that would entail a major comedown in money. I don't know if he has any connections or has made any with All Japan, but if he wants to make a career out of Japan, that promotion and him almost seem tailor-made if he can learn that style and psychology. All Japan needs new foreign stars they can push and very few Americans have the ability to make it with that group and Austin potentially fits into that select group. Of course WWF is the most logical option. He probably could also return to WCW if he was willing to work for less money and a per night deal although I'm betting the nature of his dismissal which will almost certainly result in very bitter feelings will make that very difficult.

A few hours later, WCW and Gene Okerlund's agent Barry Bloom agreed verbally to a two-year contract which, with incentives, is more potentially lucrative than his previous deal which was said to have a $250,000 base. Okerlund's WCW contract had expired two days earlier and it was questionable if the deal hadn't been put together whether he would have appeared at the Fall Brawl PPV show. Naturally the timing of the Austin firing, particularly being fired while injured ala Steamboat, and the Okerlund raise didn't set well with several wrestlers within WCW for obvious reasons.
 
#92 ·
It kind of was. I think that was due to frustration. I found that book to be more hilarious than anything. One excerpt pointing out Hogan says "dude", "brother", & "jack" about 10 times each in 1 minute had me in stitches.

Glad I found this thread. Seems like a good place for me to pimp Brian Pillman matches. Maybe I'll do the Superbrawl match vs Jushin Liger or War Games at WrestleWar '91. This is gonna be fun.
 
#90 ·
^Foley gave so much to the business and the physical sacrifices he has made for my entertainment I greatly appreciate his efforts. Some of the bumps he took not only in this match or the chair shots he took in the I Quit Match with Rock, but going back to the early 90s in WCW when he was taking those potato shots from Vader was brutal.


Now, I posted this video in another thread that I think is just an awesome compilation of some of Mr. Perfect's best vignettes with The Genius during his feud with Hulk Hogan. This is how you present arrogant heels. Perfect was made a legend because of entertaining segments like these as well as his great work in the ring.

 
#93 ·
Originally Posted by 777
Recently started reading The Death of WCW by Alvarez and Reynolds. While I'm enjoying the information and details of day-to-day operations, I am finding the writing needlessly mean spirited and cruel.
Id give the book 3/10 honestly. They point the finger at alot of people but didnt even try interviewing them. They also pulled some figures (attendance,merchandise sales, ticket sales..et.c) without a single source for that information. It shouldve been alot better but it was what it was.

They also put some lies in the book. I remember they were talking about Great American Bash 1999 and they made fun of it for opening with a rundown of the card. They said wcw didnt even promote what was on the show. They go into this whole ordeal about it but the thing is, WCW had advertised most of the matches for the show, they added one or two bonus matches, which they always did. Also, wcw always opened with a rundown of theere card.

Just lots of small shit like that annoyed me. I hate it because alot of these young kids on these boards who never watched wcw, read this book and think they know what the fuck is up with wcw even though the book is full of shit.
 
#95 ·
Wasn't a far-fetched statement though. Hogan's promos have generally consisted of those outlandish filler words. Moreso contained while in WCW or TNA currently.

I didn't mind it for what it was. If they were bitter or felt the need to take shots then that's simply unfortunate. Doesn't change my outlook on any of the other wrestlers or the company. We ALL know how poorly ran WCW was. It's no secret. If Bryan Alvarez felt the need to take shots any chance he got, well then he's sour about the way things went down for whatever reason. Not surprising with Alvarez either. He sees something bad and he'll beat a dead horse.
 
#97 ·
Here are some Double A matches from WCW which also features some quality stuff from The 4 Horsemen and The Dangerous Alliance:



Arn Anderson & Ric Flair Vs Rock 'n Roll Express – The Main Event 02/18/1990

Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Sting & Marcus Bagwell - WCW Pro 02/01/1992

Lord Steven Regal Vs Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 10/09/1993

Arn Anderson Vs Ricky Steamboat - Main Event 08/21/1994

Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Barry Windham & Ron Simmons - WCW Pro 11/09/1991

Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vs Sting, Brian Pillman & El Gigante - Main Event 04/28/1990

Bobby Eaton Vs Arn Anderson – Superbrawl 1991

Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Steve Austin Vs Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat - Pro 04/04/1992

Steven Regal Vs Arn Anderson - SuperBrawl 02/20/1994

Arn Anderson & Brian Pillman Vs Ric Flair & Sting - Halloween Havoc 1995

Arn Anderson/ Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko Vs Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham/Ron Simmons - Clash of the Champions XVIII 01/21/1992

Arn Anderson Vs Ricky Steamboat - WCW Pro 03/21/1992

Arn Anderson Vs Great Muta - Power Hour 01/12/1990

Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 11/13/1993

Arn Anderson/Ric Flair/Lex Luger/Sting Vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/Sting (War Games) - Fall Brawl 1996

Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 1995

Arn Anderson & Barry Windham Vs Doom - Starrcade 1990

Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - 05/02/1992

Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Nasty Boys Vs Bunkhouse Buck/Arn Anderson/Terry Funk/Colonel Parker (War Games)- Fall Brawl 1994

Arn Anderson Vs Barry Windham - 06/06/1992

Arn Anderson Vs Dustin Rhodes - Satuday Night 01/04/1992

Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 05/23/1992

Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko/Bobby Eaton Vs Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham - Saturday Night 02/22/1992

Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash Of The Champions XVII 11/19/1991

Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham Vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude (War Games) - Wrestlewar 1992
 
#98 ·
That Flair/Anderson match from Fall Brawl is amazing.

Speaking of awesomely underrated workers, how does everyone here feel about Brian Pillman ? Personally, I love the guy's work and I feel he'll almost never get the due he deserves. The Hollywood Blonde's work was fucking amazing with Steve Austin, not to mention his work with Jushin Liger which I've almost ADORED. Where does he rank in terms of his era, as well as all time ?
 
#100 ·
WWF Royal Rumble 1989:

Jim Duggan and The Hart Foundation vs Dino Bravo and The Fabulous Rougeaus- *** (Probably the best match of the night. Very solid work from all involved.)

Rockin' Robin vs Judy Martin- * 1/2 (Not awful but it was very sloppy and Sheri was super annoying on commentary. Just not a very good match.)

King Haku vs Harley Race- ** 3/4 (I actually really enjoyed this. Not a great match by any means but it was very good with great ring work by both men.)

1989 Royal Rumble match- *** (Not my favorite rumble but being the very first one to feature 30 men, I think they did a great job with it. )

Not a bad show at all. I give it *** 1/2 stars.
 
#101 ·
WCW Uncensored 1999 - WCW Cruserweight Championship

Billy Kidman(c) vs Mikey Whipwreck ~ ***3/4​


Lets have Mikey Whipwreck debut in the company via no hype and a random championship shot. Brilliant! No sarcasm. It really was a smart move. He got 15 minutes to showcase to the WCW crowd how awesome he is. Kidman was riding some mad momentum as champion around this time. Continued to bring it here. What ensued was a nice blend of the standard high flying action, hard hitting bumps (in true Whipwreck fashion), and probably the most effective debut on a name basis only as Mikey got immense heat the moment his name was announced, haha. If there is anything to miss in this era of wrestling it was a little thing like that. Strong match. Obligatory "stole the show" comment. Which is common place among quite a bit of WCW PPVs for the openers. Especially those with cruiserweights in them.

I'm such a sucker for cruiserweight matches back in WCW.
 
#108 ·
Regardless, he would've been HUGE in the Attitude Era if it weren't for his untimely passing. He had a pre-built championship feud with Steve Austin for sure and was probably in the top 5 in mic work in the company at the time, which is saying a LOT considering the competition.
 
#109 ·
Well he was already stellar in the early part of the Attitude Era. (it did start in 1997)

I wonder if he would have stayed with the company after the screwjob. Smith & Neidhart bolted. Owen stayed b/c of his contract. Pillman was up in the air. We'll never know, but it is some food for thought.
 
#113 ·
Masterpiece of wrestlecrap? Then yep.

Wrestlers bumble around the ring for "x" amount of time. Face points around as the crowd goes nuts for him in the direction of the heel. Heel tries it and doesn't have to same luck. Falls into a predicament, often times a comedy spot that leaves him in peril. Face manages to get the upper hand and win. Or, the heel lifts the blindfold to cheat a la Triple H vs D-Lo Brown from RAW Roulette in 2002. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Bad. Even for 1991 when Roberts vs Martel occured.
 
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