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post #2042 of (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 07:03 AM
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Re: The 2012 MOTYC thread

Originally Posted by Hailsabin View Post
True that. While I should have specified the rock being aimed at more lower level indie promotions, Davey's no sell saves my claim regardless.

I'm not sour on the whole US indie scene. I do think they've taken a blow via losing a lot of their top stars to the bigger companies though. Only original big names that seem to remain are Colt Cabana, El Generico, & Kevin Steen. Everyone else who is good is fairly new or just now breaking out. (Adam Cole, Ricochet, Super Smash Bros, etc) Differing opinions between you and I here, although I knew you haven't been too keen on the US indie market for a bit. Or at least this year. I'd say the only hooks in that world right now, for me, is Chikara & PWG. With random workers scattered elsewhere. Warming up more to EVOLVE & Dragon Gate: USA.

I do realize the irony of some of my examples too. Generico, Steen, & Super Smash Brothers are all Canadian. They work frequently for US indie promotions though so, meh. Screw it.
The guys I had listed were:
Adam Cole
El Generico
Kevin Steen
Young Bucks
Super Smash Brothers
Sami Callihan
Luke Gallows
Jerry Lawler

and that's all that I'd consider very good workers on the US Indies right now. Gallows, Finlay and Lawler are basically done for now too. Yes to Ricochet too but he's full time in Japan so I wouldn't really consider him an Indy guy now.

The biggest problem imo is the severe lack of vets for these new guys to work with. There's no Joe or a Danielson or a Aries or a Nigel to pair these new guys with promise with to elevate them to another level. Look at Tyler Black when he first broke through in ROH. He was a decent guy with potential who guys like Danielson and McGuinness made look like a legit star. Would Black have ever got over as more than a tag guy if them 2 weren't around? Debatable but I'd say unlikely. You look at the US Indies right now and there's nobody other than Generico who can fit into that role of taking a lesser guy and getting the most out of him to make him look like a great worker even if he isn't. Take Gargano for example. Gargano's a guy who's got the potential to be a great worker on the Indies but all the guys he works with are around his level so he can't progress any higher without a superhuman solo effort. Working with guys like Chuck Taylor and Jon Davis won't make him a great worker. Working with guys like Danielson and co would have made him a great worker by now though. All you have to do is watch Gargano's match with Danielson from 2010 and you'll see my point of how a guy like Danielson can take a decent worker, use all his positives and then use all of his attributes to make the guy look better than he already is and then use the experience for that guy to develop from it. There's an old wrestling phrase which is "you're only as good as your opponent". Basically in order for you to look good, you have to make your opponent look good. A guy like Chuck Taylor can't make a guy like Johnny Gargano look better than he is. Flair and Danielson were/are masters of doing that. How many Indy guys has Danielson had the best matches of their carears with? How many guys made Sting and Luger look as great as they did when they faced Flair?
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