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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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#1 ·
#8,061 ·
I enjoyed Show-Sheamus but thought the first part was pretty boring tbh.

Anyway only thing I'm certain of is Bryan-Punk OTL is my MOTY, I have Taker-HHH and Cena v Lesner pretty much on a par, will be rewatching both to make a final call.

Next would come Sheamus v Bryan which was a fantastic hard hitting, well paced match.

Jericho-Punk Mania and Cena v Punk Night of Champions are close in quality and would be my 5th and 6th favourites of the year.
 
#8,062 ·
If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me. That may sound petty but I don't care lol. I'm a huge Cena mark but fuck did that ending ever piss me off. I'm just happy that it hasn't been able to ruin the rest of the match for me and what a match it is. Something truly special and rare in todays WWE. Brock's physical presence is just on another level all together. It can't be said enough how legit scary this dude is. When he walked past me at Raw I was just blown away. He's HUGE. Ryback can suck a dick compared to Lesnar lol.
I was honestly happy that Cena ended up winning that match. I wasn't rooting for him at first but as the beating wore on I honestly started to get behind him in the match. That was really something special, can't believe we saw a match like that in WWE.



Hell in a Cell 2012


Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio w/Ricardo Rodriguez


While it's not the best booking philosophy putting two upper car guys in a random match against each other because they have nothing planned for either guy does make for some really good matches. This was pretty awesome with Del Rio working Orton's arm for most of the match and Orton sold it really well of course. There were a few bad looking spots in the match, Del Rio really shouldn't be going to the top rope very often, but other than those moments this went really well. THe ending came out of nowhere but I thought it worked since both guys have big moves that they can hit out of nowhere. These guys have great chemistry together and when one of them gets the title back I would love to see a longer match between the two.
***1/4


WWE Tag Team Championship Match:
Daniel Bryan and Kane(c) vs. Cody Rhodes and Damien Sandow

The show continues with another really good match. Kane and Bryan have their dynamic down perfectly and it worked well with the compatible Rhodes and Sandow. When Bryan gets some offense going and you see the angry face he's incredible. Despite being the smallest guy in the ring he is able to look like a total badass at times. I was a huge fan of the ending but at least we'll see another match from the teams again. I would imagine that all this tag team stuff is being done to set up a big TLC match at TLC and the road there should be fun.
***


Intercontinental Championship Match:

The Miz vs. Kofi Kingston(c)

I wasn't really into this at all until Miz attacked the leg of Kofi. At that point the intensity really picked up as we saw a mean streak from the Miz and an underdog performance from Kofi. It still falls into the category of good that both guys seem to have all the time but it didn't get into great territory. I wish they had just gone to the leg work much earlier but this still worked fiarly well I guess.
**3/4



United States Championship Match:

Antonio Caesero(c) vs. Justin Gabriel

This could have been incredible I think if they hadn't been so concerned with making Antonio look strong. The guy has an amazing ability to work well with smaller high fliers so on paper Gabriel seems like the perfect guy to go against him. I know they've had better matches than this one as well. My biggest problem is that I never really felt that Gabriel had a chance to win, which is a problem when you have an underdog in the match like him. There was a lot of cool stuff that they did but I just wished they hadn't been so concerned with making the champion look dominant.
**1/4



The Prime Time Players vs. Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara

This was actually a lot better than it I thought it would be. PTP were willing to sell for the smaller guys and the way they were able to use their strength on them made created a good dynamic. Sin Cara was actually really good at getting isolated before making the hot tag. He didn't botch anything and sold well. Things picked up when Rey got the hot tag. This wasn't anything special but I don't have the highest opinion of anyone in this match but Rey so the fact that they were able to pull it off is impressive.
**1/2



World Heavyweight Championship Match:

Sheamus(c) vs. The Big Show

Wait this isn't taking place inside the cell? That one complaint aside this was incredible. I didn't even want to watch it at first but I'm glad that I did. The story of the match early on was that Sheamus was in the ring with someone that able to man handle him for a change. The Big Show's control segment early on was pretty good (fucking brutal chops) but it wasn't until Sheamus stared showing som life that this really kicked it into the next gear. I was on the edge of my seat near the end because I got to the point where I really didn't know who was going to win, and I was about as sure as you could be before the match that I knew who was going to win. Both guys made each other look stronger than before the match. I can't wait to see a re-match. This is the best match from Big Show that I've seen in years.
****


Divas Championship:

Eve(c) vs. Layla vs. Caitlynn

Last move of the match aside they executed everything pretty well. This was watchable at least as they kept it short, did some cool moves, and kept the match moving. Bad spot on the card and a dead crowd but the later can be expected.
*1/2


Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Champinship:

CM Punk(c) w/Paul Heyman vs. Ryback

This is why you should book yourself into a corner like this. I'll admit the ending took me by surprise but that's not how I want a PPV to end. The match was good for he time it lasted. Early on it was all about the question, "How the hell is Punk going to pull this off?" He played a good role of a scared heel and Heyman really added to that. Still this was the main event of a PPV and it lasted maybe 10 minutes.Post match stuff was awesome but when the ref takes the biggest bump of the match I have a problem with things. If this happened on Raw I would say it was a great TV main event, on a PPV not so much.
**3/4

Overall this was a decent show. Big Show/Sheamus was great and really saved this. The undercard gave you some good matches but I feel like this could hae been a lot better.
 
#8,063 ·
Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio- ***1/2
Team Hell No vs. Team Rhodes Scholars- **3/4
Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz- ***
Antonio Cesaro vs. Justin Gabriel- **1/2
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Sin Cara vs. Prime Time Players- **1/4
Sheamus vs. Big Show- ****
Eve vs. Layla vs. Kaitlyn- N/A, I went to the bathroom, but I heard this was actually decent
CM Punk vs. Ryback- ***

Overall, a very fun show I thought, Show/Sheamus completely blew me out of the water. I really did think much of Miz/Kofi or Orton/ADR going in, but I am glad it surprised me. If Cesaro/Gabriel could get like 10 minutes in front of a decent crowd :mark:

I quite enjoy the Bryan/Punk series from this year (RAW, SD!, OTL, MITB). So I would would probably rate at least 3 of those ahead of Sheamus/Show, also Punk/Henry NO DQ, Lesnar/Cena, and MAYBE Ziggler/Punk Royal Rumble (I enjoyed this more than most people). But yea, Show/Fella was just awesome, could possibly go up on rewatch.

One last thing, anyone else think WWE has been on fire on TV this year? What are some of you guys favorite matches from TV this year? Mine are (and I do not remember so dates off the top of my head):

Punk/Henry III
Any Jericho/Fella match
Punk/Bryan (as stated before)
Sandows/Sheamus (**** in my opinion)
Show/Bryan from January (Awesome David vs Goliath story)
..and I am sure I am forgetting stuff lol, top of my head of course.
Well the creative has been shit, so I've rarely watched the product.
 
#8,065 ·
US WOTY b/c someone asked for it:

93: Vader
94: Bret Hart or Dustin Rhodes
95: Bret Hart
96: Shawn Michaels
97: Eddie Guerrero
98: Chris Benoit
99: Chris Benoit (I hear some ECW guys were ruling it - haven't seen much of it)
00: Yoshihiro Tajiri
01: Steve Austin
02: Eddie Guerrero or Low Ki
03: .....?
04: Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit
05: Eddie Guerrero
06: Finlay

I'm pretty useless after that. I'd need to watch more of the indy stuff.


03 - Kenta Kobashi (USA, Bryan Danielson)
Where WAS Dragon in 2003? Watching 2003 ROH I'm up to November and he's shown up like 3 times. Where did he work? I assumed he was doing NOAH, was he in the US?
 
#8,066 ·
If Lesnar had won it's a 5* match for me. That may sound petty but I don't care lol. I'm a huge Cena mark but fuck did that ending ever piss me off. I'm just happy that it hasn't been able to ruin the rest of the match for me and what a match it is. Something truly special and rare in todays WWE. Brock's physical presence is just on another level all together. It can't be said enough how legit scary this dude is. When he walked past me at Raw I was just blown away. He's HUGE. Ryback can suck a dick compared to Lesnar lol.
I've debated going the full 5 for it regardless. I really can't think of a match that comes close to what that had. BROCK is in a league all by himself with his legit beast credibility. Cena continues to rule in big match situations.

Now I wanted Brock to win too, but I'm not too surprised Cena won. Like I say every single chance I get: Cena to beat Rock at WM. Brock to beat Cena at Extreme Rules. That's what I wanted. (your plan about the Cena downward spiral would have been brilliant too)

This x1000. This and Cena/HHH WM22 (not trying to start this argument again) are the only two matches with endings that genuinely bother me.
tbf, I do think I was over-critical on Cena/HHH WM 22.

Only result that I can recall that upset me was Orton beating Punk @ Extreme Rules 2011. Talk about making Punk look like a chump. He couldn't even beat Orton once. Fuck that. My rant was vicious.

Not happy about HHH over Orton at WrestleMania 25 either. I guess that resolved itself by Backlash though. (I was still an Orton mark at this time, haha)
 
#8,067 · (Edited)
Where WAS Dragon in 2003? Watching 2003 ROH I'm up to November and he's shown up like 3 times. Where did he work? I assumed he was doing NOAH, was he in the US?
I recall a few ROH matches I liked tbh, the London Ironman from Epic Encounter being the pinnacle of the year. Truth be told not many guys jumped out to me from America as WOTY (maybe Eddie for his tag work with Tajiri and then the lie, cheat, steal gimmick) and Danielson was a guy I remembered from a few matches (I want to say there's a Joe match from 2003 that I quite enjoyed) and figured was the best shout I could think of at the time. Pretty sure he was relegated to Japan for a lot of the year and maybe the odd Indy show, never been too enthralled with his early Japan work but he was stuck in a lot of tags with guys who were pretty shit and even the best match from that time (a Kanemoto match from 2004) barely reaches 10 minutes.

Good shout on Benoit for 98 and 99, he's probably the only guy from America I'd consider match wise. Honestly though trying to think of someone even from Japan/Lucha was a nightmare for those two years. BattlARTS was pretty great from the little I've seen, but aside from the odd Misawa and Kawada match, I can't think of too much New Japan/All Japan I've watched from that time frame.

EDIT:

If we're discussing bad finishes/matches that disappoint us, I want to find the agent who layed out Angle/Rey/Orton from WM22 and shoot him. Fuck it was probably Angle directing traffic in there. Clueless bastard. I mean we get Orton/Mysterio NWO being very good, Smackdown 4/7 being AMAZING and Angle/Taker NWO being a top 3 Angle match ever...and yet on the grandest stage we get one of the most dire choreographed matches in existence, with the added bonus of the underdog babyface looking like a little bitch to Angle. I want to say Rey even taps to an Ankle Lock when the ref is down? If I'm not mixing it up with another match they had..that just makes the entire debacle even more absurd.
 
#8,068 ·
Dragon had maybe two fun matches with Joe, then the really good London and Styles matches. IDK, doesn't feel like a Best in America catalogue, but I see some argument because there doesn't seem to be too many to contend with him. I think I prefer Corino and Homicide to Dragon that year, though. But I wouldn't call them Best in US guys either. There's other Indy guys like Ian Rotten that get a lot of praise, but I've seen none of it. Eddie's a good pick. I'd say Lesnar is probably fucking with the best of them but I don't really dig the Angle matches. That's a series I should re-watch soon. 2003 kind of sucked worldwide, didn't it? :p

I'd say Ishikawa was the best wrestler in the world in 1998. Maybe 1999 as well but I want to watch the Tajiris and Yoshidas and other peeps that get talk as WOTY first. 98-99 NJ/AJ is a bit of a blind-spot for me as well, but I've seen the big Misawa/Kobashi Misawa/Kawadas from then, and they're not really great at all.
 
#8,069 ·
Whenever I look back on 1998 and try to sum up the wrestlers that had a good year all that comes to mind was WCW's awesome midcard: Benoit, Jericho, Finlay, Raven, DDP, Saturn, Kanyon, Guerrera, Kidman(more in the latter half of the year)

Sadly I don't recall Eddie having too much strong stuff at that time. '98 was nothing compared to his '97.
 
#8,071 ·
Lesnar isn't a bad shout tbf, even if you discount the Cena series he's got the Mysterio and Benoit Smackdown matches as well as the really good Judgement Day match vs Big Show. Couple of really outrageous heel performances against Spanky and Gowen in the build up to Summerslam as well. Truth be told I'm not terribly high on the Angle series, I'd call them better than your average Angle match but they're a long mile away from his best matches against Austin, Taker and Mysterio.

Aye Danielson really was just about the only guy that came to mind when I tried to think of best US wrestler. Homicide and Corino I've seen nothing of from that timeframe, though I hear good reports from Jawbreaker and others about their series. Think its the Best Friends, Stiffer Enemies match which gets a ton of praise.

Joe was someone I considered but aside from the awesome Jay Briscoe cage match (you seen that btw? awesome sub 15 minute title match) I couldn't think of many matches from 03 of his I've seen and enjoyed immensely.

Rotten/Hero is probably the most overlooked match from 2002, and I really want to watch that other Rotten match Andy wrote about for the poll which he said was better than Hero/Rotten. Think its on a Schneider Comp if memory serves me right.

Yeah Ishikawa stood out from some of the Otsuka and Ikeda matches I've seen from 98/99, seems like wrestling as a whole was pretty subdued in those years.
 
#8,073 ·
Joe was someone I considered but aside from the awesome Jay Briscoe cage match (you seen that btw? awesome sub 15 minute title match) I couldn't think of many matches from 03 of his I've seen and enjoyed immensely..
Nup, haven't seen Joe/Briscoe. I think I just watched the last show before it where Cornette teamed with the Briscoes and attacked Joe. Cage match is probably next. Good call on Joe, btw. Had really fun stuff all year and I don't think him being USWOTY is out of the question. He is kind of missing those big matches. He's probably the most consistent I've seen, I guess.
 
#8,075 ·
Nup, haven't seen Joe/Briscoe. I think I just watched the last show before it where Cornette teamed with the Briscoes and attacked Joe. Cage match is probably next. Good call on Joe, btw. Had really fun stuff all year and I don't think him being USWOTY is out of the question. He is kind of missing those big matches. He's probably the most consistent I've seen, I guess.
I think you'll really dig it. Briscoe blades a ton and it gets pretty sick by the end (including a pretty disgusting visual of his skin hanging off his forehead), but during this you have Joe excelling as the Champion dominating only to grow frustrated by Jay's resiliency and eventually he shifts into a fearful and apprehensive champion who starts to believe he might have underestimated Briscoe. Jay's terrific working as the disrespectful heel who's tough enough to keep fighting and hit his spots for a comeback, and they even work a really nifty escape the cage attempt by Mark on the outside who then eats a sick bump on the hardwood floor.

Any Joe matches you can recommend? Aside from a Danielson match and that one his 03 is a blank spot for me.
 
#8,077 ·
Going off memory it is pretty good, though Gibson is the star IMO with the way they book him and his eventual return. Punk/Aries is pretty stellar as well sans the Punk superhero ending, even if I admire why they executed it the way they did, it still looks total shit to see him pop up from stuff with minimal effort. Maybe Aries' career performance aside from the Final Battle 2004 match vs Joe.
 
#8,078 ·
Yeah WCW had some really good shit. Eddie had some awesome tags that year. His feud with Chavo wasn't too great, but they had a really good match at a house show. Liked the Kidman match a Starrcade.
Yeah it was the real latter end of the year where he got some good stuff out. His match vs Ultimo Dragon at GAB should have been better. Didn't help that the fans were legit dead silent during it.

anyone seen the final punk title defence four way at ROH?

that match was great
I'm a fan. Punk vs Gibson 2 shows before that (Fate of an Angel) was even better, imo.

Punk vs Aries Death Before Dishonor III is at about ****1/2 for me. Not hard to get caught up in the emotion of the bout though. It's the sole reason I purchased the show. Then that post match promo, jesus fuckin christ. I can harp on it for days.
 
#8,079 ·
I think you'll really dig it. Briscoe blades a ton and it gets pretty sick by the end (including a pretty disgusting visual of his skin hanging off his forehead), but during this you have Joe excelling as the Champion dominating only to grow frustrated by Jay's resiliency and eventually he shifts into a fearful and apprehensive champion who starts to believe he might have underestimated Briscoe. Jay's terrific working as the disrespectful heel who's tough enough to keep fighting and hit his spots for a comeback, and they even work a really nifty escape the cage attempt by Mark on the outside who then eats a sick bump on the hardwood floor.

Any Joe matches you can recommend? Aside from a Danielson match and that one his 03 is a blank spot for me.
Dan Maff match at WrestleRave is good. Liked the Homicide match at Do or Die a lot and the No Holds Barred re-match was actually pretty fucking great IIRC. Might be the best Joe match I've seen in 03 so far. v London at DBD is also good. Match with Punk (BFSE) isn't THAT good, but it's probably my favourite Punk match of 2003 other than something with Raven. I remember thinking he carried a random dude at the FWA cross show to something pretty good. He's almost always the best guy in four corner matches. He faced one of the Briscoes (Don't remember which - I absolutely cannot tell them apart and will not listen to Gabe's commentary) at Tradition Continues and I liked it. Again not much REALLY REALLY good but he sort of had a sneaky great year.
 
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