Originally Posted by MrMister
Thanks for taking this to this thread Genesis. You guys were coming awfully close to talking about book Cersei and I didn't want to say SPOILERS because that would've given it away. Show Cersei hasn't really displayed how dumb she really is just yet.
And she totally outplayed Robert, but Robert didn't even know he was playing a game. He was oblivious to politics. He's a war machine not suited for such things. He's a conqueror and a damn good one, but has no clue or even cares about keeping what he takes.
Also compare Victarion to Littlefinger. If Vic is in a bad mood, Littlefinger is fucking dead, end of story. This is hypothetical of course.
For the first, it's no issue at all dude. I was like 'Spoilers' the hell? Now that you're pointing out the direction it was going & not the post itself, makes perfect sense.
I would never ruin Ceresei's decline in intelligence & ascent into blind arrogance. Just think how they'll feel when she ends up on Trial.
Originally Posted by IMPULSE
i don't find cersei aerys dangerous at all. joffrey maybe, cersei isn't mad.
getting the throne and maintaining it are two different things. i'm not referencing the conqueror because well the game of thrones didn't exist before him. there was no throne. it was just people invading westeroes over and over again, and he was the first to unite the throne. i like to think different time, different measures.
if i'm keying into intelligence. it's because cersei lack of it concerning this game has her in her current position. where this argument stems from is cersei dismissal of little finger's statement. he tell her knowledge is power, she disagrees saying power is power. her son then one ups her with his power and if she had the knowledge of how to deal with him he would have never leveled his threat. she's close minded.
talented pieces can be knocked out by angry men. hell aerys knocked tywin down plenty of times.
trueborn argument shows how short sighted she is. she wasn't plannning on that to play some game of thrones. she didn't give robert an heir out of hate. he called her the name of another woman and she hated him for it. it bruised her pride so bad she decided to ruin his life. if she had one child with him, this mess that she created never occurs. no one would go looking into genetics. she could had easily had one after joffrey or her daughter. i can say no one would look into genetics because arya is the only stark that looks like eddard. no one goes around questioning if cat children have edmure as a brother. she out maneuvered robert who didn't want to be a king. he wasn't playing a game.
cersei plays chess, while everyone else plays checkers. she gets her king and jumps over the smaller things. one child and stannis and renly claim looks awful.
she didn't even eliminate eddard that was littlefinger who did him in.
i can't go around giving her a round of applause when she gets her son on the throne. she has to deal with the north and the riverlands becoming and independent nation. storm end's and the reach backing renly. dragonstone backing stannis. the iron islands planning on being king. dorne and the vale staying out of it. for someone so good at playing this game, she has over half the kingdom denying her son's reign. he rules the westerlands at this point.
the north and the riverlands wouldn't have rebelled if her dangerously reckless son didn't chop eddard's off.
Everything you've posted here actually feeds into what I've been saying: She's fairly intelligent, she's malicious which goes hand & hand in the Game from House Lannnister, she's had a number of monumental successes playing the Game, & even while her enemies (newly made or old) fall around her, she's still alive & pulling strings, discredited or no.
Fact of the matter is any move of consequence, & removing a King you despise & crowning Kings of your own blood that you can have a strong influence with, comes with ramifications. That's just magnified because of her growing carelessness as she ascends. When she was still in Robert's shadow & pulling the strings as much as possible during the earliest portion of Joffrey's reign, she was forced to be more careful, as she adjusts to her role, she discards her caution & just goes for hammer strokes. Like I said, she's Tywin 100% when it comes to pride, brutality, & making enemies of any House not under their banner. She just lacks his tact, his inherent caution, his willingness to wait.
The fact that you keep absolving Joffrey of his wrongdoing, his pure idiocy, is ridiculous. You want to talk about someone who can't play the Game & makes no attempt to do so, it's Joffrey. He's utterly useless, completely controlled by his rage & whims.
Hell, Ceresei sees this in her son & she isn't as bothered by it because it allows her to step in & rule for a time, in his name prior to Tyrion acting as King's Hand. Even afterward, she continues to pull her own strings.
You don't have to like her but she's a capable player, at least at the outset & even more important than all that, she was powerful. Intelligence & cunning don't always reign supreme in the Game.