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Do Wrestlers Draw, Or Does the WWE Brand Draw?

  • Wrestlers Draw

    Votes: 251 39.5%
  • WWE Brand draws

    Votes: 384 60.5%
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**The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

988K views 9K replies 852 participants last post by  Starbuck 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
For a list of the weekly rating dating back to January, please click here:

http://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2012-tv-ratings/

RATINGS BREAKDOWN FOR THIS WEEKS RAW 4/9

Raw on 4/9 did a 3.10 rating and 4.29 million viewers. The show was third for the night on cable. The show did a 2.4 in Males 12-17, 2.7 in Males 18-49, 1.0 in Girls 12-17 and 1.1 in Women 18-49 with a 69.3% male skew. It was down 21% from the 5.46 million viewers of the week after Mania show last year, and last year there was no bombshell along the lines of the Brock Lesnar return on the night after Mania show.

In the segment-by-segment, Brodus Clay & Santino Marella vs. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger lost 99,000 viewers.

Backstage with Laurinaitis with Miz an Cena, Marella looking for the Three Stooges and R-Truth vs. Cody Rhodes gained 255,000 viewers.

Lord Tensai vs. Yoshi Tatsu lost 415,000 viewers.

The mic work between C.M. Punk and Chris Jericho in the top of the hour segment gained 379,000 viewers to a 3.19.

Punk vs. Henry and the post-match with Jericho pouring beer all over Punk, as well as the quick Del Rio vs. Ryder match lost 169,000 viewers.

The Three Stooges in-ring segment lost 240,000 viewers and was the low point of the show at 2.90.

The Brock Lesnar interview gained 423,000 viewers.

And the Cena vs. Otunga match with Lesnar run-in gained 301,000 viewers, which is a very weak overrun number, finishing at 3.42.
 
#2,450 · (Edited)
Cm Punk/Jericho segment gained 379,000. And Jericho giving a beer bath to Punk lost 169,000.
So I see that Punk gained viewers because Jericho was in the segment in the last min.
 
#2,463 ·
In all that craziness last night I forgot to actually comment on the breakdown lol. It's certainly an interesting one, aren't they all? DURRR The opening being so low is just flat out wrong tbh. It shouldn't be anywhere near those numbers and I find it confusing as hell that the closing segment last week featuring Brock/Cena could have such a huge number and then one week later have such a low number. I don't think it's because people aren't interested. If they weren't interested it wouldn't have done so well in the first place. If they weren't interested Lesnar's interview wouldn't have pulled so many people back either. Or maybe they aren't interested. I guess next week we'll know for sure because if it happens twice+ then there isn't really any other conclusion you can come to.

As for the rest, I'm glad the stooges were the low point of the show. They were fucking shit and nobody wanted to see them there. I hope their movie does shit as well just to spite them too. Jericho/Punk had a better gain than they usually do, which is good, but then lost half the people they pulled in in the next segment, which is bad lol. Both programs did just alright this week but nothing was exactly stellar. The highest gain of the night was Lesnar's interview and it didn't even top 500k. No segment was over the 5 million mark either which is really bad, especially for Cena/Lesnar. But the overrun was close I suppose.

I always say this but next week will be interesting for sure lol. While it wasn't exactly the awesome program it could have been both substance and ratings wise, at least Rock/Cena was doing the average or slightly above in the time slots they were in. So far, outside last weeks monster number, Cena/Lesnar hasn't exactly produced the goods. It's only been 2 weeks though so it's not really fair to judge yet. They really ought to be hitting around the 5 million mark from here on out though imo. Most of the top and hottest angles are at that mark and that's the standard I'm holding Cena/Lesnar too as well. Who knows, maybe this will turn out to be a case of lower viewing audience/higher PPV audience. We'll find that out come Extreme Rules. All I can say is, they have my buy, something that wasn't guaranteed before Brock Lesnar came back last week. After that, I really don't know. Depends how they handle it as always I suppose.
 
#2,470 ·
I find it confusing as hell that the closing segment last week featuring Brock/Cena could have such a huge number and then one week later have such a low number. I don't think it's because people aren't interested. If they weren't interested it wouldn't have done so well in the first place.
But before the segment they were not promoting Brock/Cena. They were promoting Cena/Rock with Cena 'confronting' The Rock. The big overrun was for the WrestleMania fallout.

Although it may seem it, just because 99 percent of this forum liked Brock's return, it doesn't mean 99 percent of the WWE's audience liked Brock's return. If WWE's audience profile has changed drastically over the past ten years - ie not many people in their current audience nowadays know the name Brock Lesnar, that may have had an effect as well.

The current audience, clearly were not 'drawn' massively by Brock's return, hence the poor Q1 number.
 
#2,465 ·
Or not so simple lol. They've been failing hard at converting their television audience into their PPV audience for ages now and every year it gets worse. That's the thing that makes me chuckle about those who say the number of viewers in the AE is the same as today. That may be the case. But back then, the television viewers translated to all aspects of the business. They directly impacted upon live gates for house shows and buys for PPV's. That doesn't happen anymore. They may have retained their viewing audience, which they haven't if you break it all down, but even if they did, they haven't been able to convert that to the other 2 pillars of their business which is a pretty major problem if you ask me. People will watch on TV but won't be bothered to go see WWE if they come to their town or won't pay to watch (what should be but more often than not isn't in todays climate lol) the conclusion of the weekly TV shows on PPV.
 
#2,474 ·
Starbuck owns this thread. LMFAO. Grade-A trolling. :cool2

(You'll be hearing from me in the next 24 hours or so, S-buck, lol.)

***

Agreed with the point by JasonLives, I believe it was, about the Lord Tensai match being saddled with that fairly sizable loss (which wasn't really that huge considering how we were seeing nearly million-viewer drops only a few months back, at least things are much more stable overall now with even the midcard pulling its weight on a consistent basis, although some of that is because the top programs aren't drawing as well as they should be in the first place and right now that is namely Cena/Lesnar) isn't entirely fair, as it was ensconced between commercial breaks and fluffy backstage skits and video packages in a weak quarter hour anyway. Way too early to say that Lord Tensai is a bust or anything.

***

That Q1 number for this week's Raw is legitimately devastating. And what makes it suck even worse is that it was by far the best quarter hour of the entire show. The whole feel and vibe of that segment was unlike anything we've seen in WWE in a long, long time. It felt unpredictable and fresh. Cena and Lesnar both looked like intense badasses coming out of it. I can't believe WWE's booked this match for Extreme Rules but that's another matter, I guess. Wouldn't be surprised in the least if they don't actually go through with an actual match, but then again it's not like them in this era to reflexively cut to a bait-and-switch.

***

JasonLives making some good points backed up by facts regarding house show business in 2004. This segues nicely into Lesnar, because WWE in general was in much more dire straits back in 2004 than it's been ever since. The Cena/Batista "mini-boom" as we may like to call it spearheaded WWE into a much brighter era, overall, and its business model has changed to a significant degree in the subsequent years. If the picture of WWE's landscape seemed bleak roughly a year or so ago with HBK retiring, Batista retiring, Jericho taking another leave of absence and Edge being forced to retire, in terms of undeniably needing new stars, 2002-2004 was much, much worse. It really caught up with them in 2004, in spite of the Eddie Guerrero push which was arguably instrumental in at least keeping Smackdown viable throughout that otherwise dismal year for that brand in particular and WWE overall, and by the end of the year, in the wake of Orton's failed babyface push, the necessity of Batista and Cena becoming huge stars was irrefutable.

Average house show in 2011 averaged about 6,000 or so, I've read. Obviously WWE reaching into new, relatively untapped markets recently gives their live gate numbers a major boost but the house show business for WWE is quite healthy these days. March is usually one of the strongest months for the entire year in house show business for WWE, and it's almost entirely because of The Road to Wrestlemania, naturally and most reports indicated that the crowds this year were almost always very large at just about every house show WWE ran in the month of March. Most workers in WWE should be pleased with their payoffs right now. The international tour in April will intrinsically buttress that month's house show business as well.
 
#2,477 ·
So i understand that 2003 was overall a bad year .. even Wrestlemania 19 had a low buyrate with only 560,000 buys.
 
#2,479 · (Edited)
House Show business is terrible now, it's not all-time low because of the strong WWE machine but it's not far away from it, PPV business is at an all-time low, that's scary if you consider the availability of PPVs now compared to 15-20 years and it's STILL not even close. Domestically even the most dark eras were doing better. WWE lost money in the last quarter for the first time in more than 10 years. There's a reason why Vince is in panic mode to bring back real stars like Rock and Brock to save the biggest show of the year which is the biggest difference maker of their revenue, in 2011 they were supposed to lose a lot money but were almost where they were the year before because of the amazing game-changer Rock was in his WM program. This year? same thing if the WM buyrate is really 1.1 million which is going to be the highest grossing pro wrestling event of all time(it's already, but they need to wait till May to announce it officially).

Anyway, you can't except something from a roster full of clueless geeks who think that this business is a school trip, including the champions(not Sheamus, he understands the business), last year Vince STOLE money from their pockets and these fools didn't even know about it! do you realize how pathetic it is? this is not the same industry of MEN, this is now a circus full of kids. This is the main reason why wrestling is going down every year, WWE are not dying tomorrow, it's a slow process but it's going to happen, that's inevitable with the sad state of the industry in terms of talent and mentality.
 
#2,610 ·
House Show business is terrible now, it's not all-time low because of the strong WWE machine but it's not far away from it, PPV business is at an all-time low, that's scary if you consider the availability of PPVs now compared to 15-20 years and it's STILL not even close. Domestically even the most dark eras were doing better. WWE lost money in the last quarter for the first time in more than 10 years. There's a reason why Vince is in panic mode to bring back real stars like Rock and Brock to save the biggest show of the year which is the biggest difference maker of their revenue, in 2011 they were supposed to lose a lot money but were almost where they were the year before because of the amazing game-changer Rock was in his WM program. This year? same thing if the WM buyrate is really 1.1 million which is going to be the highest grossing pro wrestling event of all time(it's already, but they need to wait till May to announce it officially).

Anyway, you can't except something from a roster full of clueless geeks who think that this business is a school trip, including the champions(not Sheamus, he understands the business), last year Vince STOLE money from their pockets and these fools didn't even know about it! do you realize how pathetic it is? this is not the same industry of MEN, this is now a circus full of kids. This is the main reason why wrestling is going down every year, WWE are not dying tomorrow, it's a slow process but it's going to happen, that's inevitable with the sad state of the industry in terms of talent and mentality.
God, you do come out with some crap sometimes... "a roster full of clueless geeks who think that this business is a school trip, including the champions" - but not Sheamus. What the fuck does this nonsense even mean? Of course with the champions line, you're implying that Punk doesn't understand the business, but I think you'll find he understands the business a sight better than most - better than that joke Sheamus, and certainly better than you do. Tbh, the only clueless geek here is you.
 
#2,486 ·
It's been long-documented that Stephanie was the "hungry" one of the two children from a very early age to "take over" from Vince one day. Shane never had that drive, not like Stephanie. I've always figured one of the key reasons he decided to leave was because he knew he'd be the perpetual "odd man out" in WWE, even if he had a huge position of power. He did leave a lasting legacy in a few areas of WWE, the website, the way WWE negotiates with cities regarding Wrestlemania, etceteras.
 
#2,487 ·
poor booking/stale product is 90% of the problem.

i'd only credit streaming for 10&.

MITB did a great buyrate considering it wasn't on ppv over here, it was on subscription digital tv.
 
#2,488 ·
STOP SAYING BUYRATE FOR FUCKS SAKE
Anyways just realized, Don't most UFC fans (who don't watch their own shit anyways) hate lesnar?
They paid to see his ass get kicked but didn't he have a stigma for being a pro wrestler.

Doubt they are gonna pay/watch him do fake fighting now so maybe that explains the shit gain.

Gonna predict 250k now for the PPV
 
#2,492 ·
I think what one could term the UFC's "IWC" constituency more or less hates Lesnar, yes. I've been saying this for years, back when TNA was trying to make inroads on MMA fans. There's some unquestionable overlap between wrestling and MMA fans, but really not all that much anymore. And for most MMA purist fans, Lesnar was their top public enemy. Most of them are online shitting on him for returning to WWE and are happy he's gone, if anything.

And considering he was never a significant draw in any area of WWE's business, and was something of an almost bust in WWE's pay-per-view business, I'm really not expecting any kind of big number for Extreme Rules. Throw on top of all of that WWE's usual half-assed hotshotting and you have the recipe to be underwhelmed.

There will be some people who buy the pay-per-view solely for Lesnar, though. Mostly older wrestling fans, and some of those will be MMA fans, too. It's almost impossible to say for sure how many buys that will get for WWE, though.

If I were WWE, I'd be trying to attract the MMA's equivalent of the "casuals" who got into it primarily because of Lesnar, though. At least for the first few weeks. There are plenty of them out there for the picking but based on this last week's Raw rating and viewership numbers, I find it doubtful that WWE really captured many of 'em.
 
#2,489 ·
UFC fans who don't like WWE aren't gonna pay to see the ppv. They might read up on what happened, or try to see a video online, but that's it.

Same goes for other things. Lets say some WWE star was gonna have a guest star in some random tv show you don't like. Would you really want to go out and watch that episode(or pay if you had to) or just watch the clip containing the person you wanted to see.
 
#2,493 · (Edited)
Lesnar was becoming a bigger draw every year in his WWE run, in 2003 he had the most 10k+ gates in the industry as a SmackDown wrestler and like Vince said in his OTR interview, Brock was just becoming a box office draw, he was one of the biggest of the decade in his short time and would have been THE biggest of the decade if he was staying as the top star in the company for more than two years.

As for the ER buyrate, it's one month after WM28, the biggest money show in wrestling history, very hard position, especially when it's basically a one match PPV and nobody cares about the other mid card matches, Rock/Cena had HBK/Taker/HHH as another big attraction, this PPV has nothing. last year was around 200k overall, this year it's probably going to be 250k-300k with 300k being a great number. The big problem is the collapse of the international market and domestically WWE are doing their worst PPV business in history so that should tell you everything + people are not going to buy a random B show in this era, which is why it's a terrible decision to do Lesnar's return to PPV on this irrelevant show. Lesnar is going to carry ER on his back this year. That's obvious.
 
#2,496 ·
I disagree with recent comments, looking back at older WWE PPVs they had something interesting going on on most shows, which also led to more people buying them. This still applies till today, see MITB last year, people want exciting matchups all the time, if there are no fights worth viewing then people certainly won't find the shows worth paying for either. When wrestling was still a hot topic, like when WCW and WWF fought against each other during the late 90s having a dull, filler PPV was not an option. Now obviously that's not the case anymore, WWE is not afraid of TNA and their 10k or less buyrates, but I don't see why from a fan, or a business perspective some people think that it's good having needless PPVs with uninteresting matches, especially since Lesnar is on a limited appearance sort of contract so Vince would want to make as much profit with Brock while he's in the WWE.
 
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