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Official Puro Match/DVD Discussion Thread (NO SPOILERS)

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#1 ·
About time we made a Puro thread seeing as there's an Indy one and it deserves a seperate thread. You can use this to discuss any Puro matches or shows, past or present.

I've just finished this awesome set so I may as well get the thread up and running with some ratings for it.


ivp's Top 25 Matches in NOAH History

Disc 1

25. Jushin 'Thunder' Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - January 26th 2003 - Kobe World Hall
***1/2

24. Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA - April 25th 2004 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/2+

23. Jushin 'Thunder' Liger vs. Makoto Hashi - March 6th 2004 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
***3/4

Disc 2

22. Kenta Kobashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - January 8th 2005 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
***3/4

21. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Takeshi Morishima & Muhammad Yone - April 1st 2007 - Tokyo Korakuen Hall
****1/4

20. Naomichi Marufuji & Minoru Suzuki vs. Makoto Hashi & Jun Akiyama - July 18th 2005 - Tokyo Dome
****

19. Jun Akiyama & Takeshi Rikio vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura - April 28th 2007 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
***3/4

Disc 3

18. Kenta Kobashi & Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa - December 2nd 2007 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/4

17. Akira Taue vs. Yuji Nagata - June 6th 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
***1/2

16. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Makoto Hashi - September 12th 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/4

Disc 4

15. Jun Akiyama & Akitoshi Saito vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tamon Honda - June 6th 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/4

14. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Juventud Guerrera & Ricky Marvin - November 1st 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/4

Disc 5

13. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Takashi Sugiura - June 5th 2005 - Sapporo Media Park Spica
****1/2

12. Takeshi Rikio & Takeshi Morishima vs. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA - July 16th 2006 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/2

11. KENTA vs. SUWA - September 18th 2005 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/4

Disc 6

10. Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue - September 10th 2004 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/2

9. Kenta Kobashi & Kentaro Shiga vs. Jun Akiyama & Akitoshi Saito - 19th October 2002 - Tokyo Korakuen Hall
****

8. Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA - October 29th 2006 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****3/4+

Disc 7

7. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Jushin 'Thunder' Liger & Takehiro Muruhama - July 16th 2003 - Osaka Prefectural Gymnasium
****1/2

6. Kenta Kobashi vs. Tamon Honda - April 13th 2003 - Tokyo Ariake Colosseum
****1/2

BONUS Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama - December 23rd 2000 - Tokyo Ariake Colosseum
****3/4

Disc 8

5. Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama - April 25th 2004 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
****1/2

4. Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - July 10th 2004 - Tokyo Dome
****3/4

Disc 9

3. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - March 1st 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
*****

2. Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiosaki vs. Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima - November 5th 2005 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
*****

1. Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki - July 18th 2005 - Tokyo Dome
*****

Overall:
Absolutely amazing comp. Perfect for any new NOAH fans with an insane amount of brilliant matches.
 
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#5,970 ·
oh wow thank you very much. just finished their two matches from '94 and was hoping I could see that as well :D: I looked on DailyMotion and xwt classics and google but neglected youtube because i figured that would come up on the google video search
 
#5,971 · (Edited)
I watched five or six episodes of TV of Tenryu's final months in AJPW 1990 on the way to/back from the lake on the phone today (technology!). Featuring the debut of Williams and MVC, Fuyuki losing a bunch, Rusher Kimura mic performances, Barry Windham, Kobashi getting a singles win, Abby, face kicking Tenryu and the end of his brilliant Takagi feud; I especially liked a JIP tag with Tenryu/Kawada vs Takagi/Kabuki wherein Kabuki loses streaming blood and refuses/cannot tag in from the apron. Great storyline match amongst some legit goodies. Then, the beginning of the end as Tenryu jobbed in a randy six man to Jumbo's Indian Deathlock! I was pretty shocked to see that happen. The w/ Hansen vs Taue/Kabuki tag that was on the subsequent episode was brilliant as an under carder and mid carder threatened Tenryu with that very move in a little 8 or 9 minute match. Tenryu/Kabuki exchanges are all tits. I believe Tenryu/Hansen lost the belts via the same submission. TV really picks up on the Excite series and hopefully doesn't really slow down again. Baba booking, bitch!
 
#5,976 ·
How was the Windham match (if it was shown in full)? I've had it favorited on Youtube for a little while but I was never very impressed with anything Windham did in Japan.

Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 4/29/96: Sasuke start off fast again instantly knocking Liger outside and doing a dive. They get in the ring where it starts like the last match after a minute or two where Sasuke works Liger's arm. It was a short segment this time though. Liger then transitions to Sasuke's leg. Works on it for 6-11 minutes. As soon as Sasuke starts his comeback he's jumping over the ropes to the outside, doing his moonsault, going off the top rope, rendering the previous minutes useless. I was really too bothered by that to enjoy the rest of the match. The match finishes with a really lame transition by Sasuke then two moves and a pin. This match shows why there should almost never be leg work in a Jr's match. This gets ***. Going to get to their 2012 encounter tomorrow and hopefully it's a lot better than this.
Kinda glad you wrote this cause this one of the matches I loved when I was younger (gave it ****) but I'm sure I didn't even pay attention to the legwork then. I'm sure that would irritate me these days and I'd feel the same way about the match.
 
#5,972 ·
Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 4/16/94: They exchange a couple holds for the first 30 seconds but after that it was all Liger for 10 minutes. Liger put Sasuke in a cross armbreaker and Sasuke had the absolute worst selling of that move I've ever seen. He just lied there not trying to get out really. Back then and even today that move is sold as a death move. Sasuke eventually gets the advantage but Liger gets it back after a couple minutes and dives from the top rope to the floor with a beautiful cross body. From there Liger poses and turns around to see the worst botch ever. Even Liger laughed at him, which was really great covering so Sasuke could regain his bearings and pin Liger. Really great match but the selling really bothered me and not being able to improvise a different finish after such an obvious botch is just not good. ***3/4.

Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 7/8/94: Within the first two minutes of this match Sasuke has that same cross armbreaker on Liger. However, Liger knows how to sell. He tried to block it at first (which Sasuke didn't in the other match), then when locked in you would get the feeling if he stayed in the move too long his career would be cut short. Sasuke did this move 4 or 5 times and each time Liger sold it like a death move.

They reversed roles for this match having Sasuke dominate the beginning and instead of starting off with the standard exchange he attacks Liger right at the bell with a kick and a lot of strikes. Liger attempted a comeback after the first few minutes but Sasuke thwarted that. After that Sasuke abandoned the arm to go to his flippy stuff. After about 5 more minutes Liger tries yet another comeback and get a few moves in before Sasuke cuts him off again. Once Sasuke gets control again he goes for some high impact moves but goes for a flippy move but Liger counters and gets a 2 or 3 minute segment of high impact stuff trying to come back and put Sasuke away. But again Sasuke gets control for a couple minutes but finally makes his fatal mistake going to the top rope and getting caught in a super fisherman buster. On my first watch of this nearly 2 years ago I gave it 5* but this time it gets ****1/2. So much better than the first match.

Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 4/29/96: Sasuke start off fast again instantly knocking Liger outside and doing a dive. They get in the ring where it starts like the last match after a minute or two where Sasuke works Liger's arm. It was a short segment this time though. Liger then transitions to Sasuke's leg. Works on it for 6-11 minutes. As soon as Sasuke starts his comeback he's jumping over the ropes to the outside, doing his moonsault, going off the top rope, rendering the previous minutes useless. I was really too bothered by that to enjoy the rest of the match. The match finishes with a really lame transition by Sasuke then two moves and a pin. This match shows why there should almost never be leg work in a Jr's match. This gets ***. Going to get to their 2012 encounter tomorrow and hopefully it's a lot better than this.
 
#5,973 ·
I dig the finish to the Liger/Sasuke J-Cup. Sasuke screws his big move up, and Liger, practically a legend at that point already, laughs at and undermines the indy guy for fucking up. Sasuke then pops him with the same move and Liger is caught off guard because of his big head, losing to the indy guy he mocked a few seconds earlier.
 
#5,975 ·
Mini-rewatch session:

Tenryu/Kojima (AJPW 2/24/2002) was awesome as fuck. The story is simple – godlike Tenryu is bossing around and bullying Kojima, even stealing his moves to make a statement, while Kojima has a lot to prove, such a great work from both guys. The moment where Kojima gets up right after a devastating suplex, only to fall down immediately, like a sack of potatoes, is one of my favorite selling moments in ‘rasslin.

****1/2



Kawada/Tenryu (AJPW 1/18/2004) was really nice, in fact almost everything was great minus the sequence where Kawada hulked up and completely shat on Tenryu’s previous beatdown that included a nasty-as-fuck DDT. Otherwise, everything was so fine, particularly the human chess game elements between two grumpy and terrifying fucks.

***1/2
 
#5,989 ·
Mini-rewatch session:

Tenryu/Kojima (AJPW 2/24/2002) was awesome as fuck. The story is simple – godlike Tenryu is bossing around and bullying Kojima, even stealing his moves to make a statement, while Kojima has a lot to prove, such a great work from both guys. The moment where Kojima gets up right after a devastating suplex, only to fall down immediately, like a sack of potatoes, is one of my favorite selling moments in ‘rasslin.

****1/2
Thanks for the recommendation, just watched the match and it was really great. Loved the story and Kojima was on fire in this one. ****1/4

BTW I watched Fantastics vs Malenko and Kikucho from 9/1/90 and it was a pretty damn good 11 minutes match. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu58uNzZjlo. Highly recommended.
 
#5,980 · (Edited)
Little late on this, BUT I'M BACK NOW. Since this is the puro thread, enjoy this gem:

[youtube]NsUMZAcpkk[/youtube]

Huge fan. **** 1/4

EDIT; Because I have no idea if the video is showing or not, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NsUMZAcpkk

EDITx2: BUT if you are in a Muta mood, might as well watch the double bloodbaths with Hase. 9/14/90 and 12/14/92. MUTA SCALE
 
#5,978 ·
The Great Muta vs Jinsei Shinzaki - 4/29/96 - ****1/4

So that was some blade job huh?! I think what made all the blood even more horrific (and awesome) was the amount of white everywhere. Shinzaki's white gear, the white table clothes, the white referee shirts...when the blood flowed, it looked so striking and it got everywhere. A nasty gash to say the least! Jinsei sold it like a boss too; loved him trying to get to the top turnbuckle really clumsily when we're so used to seeing him jump up there very nimbly with ease.

Anyone know what the kanji was Muta drew in Shinzaki's blood? Crowd reacted like he'd just killed the Pope. Yep, Muta was awesome, even hanging Shinzaki over the top rope to really force all the blood out of the gaping wound. What a dick.

Nice comeback from Jinsei too; getting that little burst of energy after ducking the green mist was a real nice touch, but ultimately he'd just lost too much blood and couldn't keep up with the relatively unscathed Muta. Really great 'spectacle' match with a top notch Shinzaki performance.
 
#5,979 ·
Now I'm going to have to watch that atm too. I was on the verge of cramming Muta today. You've pushed me over the edge of decisiveness. It didn't take much either...:eek:

I'll probably put on Muta vs Liger again too b/c it's still probably the coolest match I've ever seen. Its a drug I can't kick.
 
#5,981 ·
Jumbo vs EYE PATCH WEARING DICK SLATER. Oh shit. :mark:

I'll check out the Muta vs Hase matches following. (Y)

Finished Muta vs Shinzaki right now. I didn't love it as much as Groovemachine, but I echo his thoughts on the match 100%. Muta was the king of the spectacle in Japan. He transcended past wrestling. That's why I'm a fan. Reaction of the fans after Muta wrote "Death" (I read it said that) on Shinzaki's gravemarker was top notch. Those fans hung on everything he did. Don't mean to sell Shinzaki short in all of this b/c his selling following the gash was great. As was his entire performance, tbhayley. The table bump he took - pre piledriver - was insanity. Now we know where Mick Foley was inspired come 1996/1997 in the matches vs Undertaker. This was pretty great. ***3/4
 
#5,982 ·
Just wanna post here so any reviews you type get separated. On the topic of Muta, a rather forgotten gem of his is the IWGP Title match with Chono from 1/4/93. Hella good match. So weird seeing what happened to those guys around late '96/'97, from what I've seen they were two lazy fucks who eventually joined NWO and became even worse. Can't stand Muta in that phase...

Off to the gym now, gonna go tear all the muscle fibers in my back. :mark: Everyone go enjoy some Great Muta.
 
#5,983 ·
Chono got lazy down the stretch. I didn't see too much of a dip in Muta. Perhaps I'm slightly biased. I know I liked their match from Bash at the Beach '97 more than you did. That's from the American side of things. At this rate Muta's '96 looks like one of his best years. That or I'm only watching his best matches from said year.

Jumbo vs Slater, boy let me tell you that was a hell of a WRESTLING bout. Quality, quality work from the two. Always astounds me how matches were worked like that at the time yet in Vince's world - pardon Backlund - most of the matches were utter lazy tripe & worked SO boring. Rest holds and all that crap. Whereas in Japan and via multiple territories really great wrestling was going on. You could almost deem it "ahead of its time" yet, it seemed to be on in full display in a lot of places. Just not that really big one in the States.

As for a bit of detail on the match the key moment I have to talk about was the sequence of the spinning toe hold followed by the brutal kicks to the face counter from Jumbo. Stiff, straightforward shots not only to the face, but to the injured patched up eye of Slater. And Slater held on! That tenacious bastard. He eventually relinquished due to the damage done to the eye - it looked like there was blood from the bandaged area - only to slap it back on a few more times. Follow the same sequence before and you're left with nothing to say but "jesus christ". Great match.

****
 
#5,984 ·
Yeah, off the top of my head I can only think of 3-4 matches I've seen from Muta in '96, and they're all the more talked about ones. '97 though, man I fuckin hated what he was doing. He worked SO LAZY as NWO Muta & his matches against Regal & Norton were just shit thanks to his awful habits and lazy workrate. I tend to just stick to the first 10 years of Muta's career ('86-'96) when it comes to praising the guy. Never seen anything his done in the 2000s, not sure if I ever want to. :p

Fuck Chono, I've seen NOTHING of a positive note from his WCW days & the late '90s.

:hb at liking Jumbo/Slater. You commented on what was definitely the most awesome moments of the match. I just loved how everything felt like a battle of one-upsmanship (that's totally not a word) and Slater put on one hell of a performance. He only had one eye for christ sake!
 
#5,985 ·
Wait Muta vs Regal AND Norton were bad. I may have to refresh myself on this. It almost can't be true. Last Regal match I watched in Japan ended up being one of the best I've ever seen vs Hashimoto in '96. Muta's matches in the 2000's (or best to say Mutoh) were fine. I remember liking some and not caring for some others. I remember when he was IWGP champ a few years back and while I love the guy, I was VERY lukewarm on it. Wanted the young blood to be the focus and here comes Mutoh beating all of those guys. I can be happy now looking at the field with Okada on top of it all.

Oh Chono. He kicked. He moved around. ehhh. He did something else. Probably an STF. Yeah, def an STF.

The manliness of Slater doesn't surprise me. He's the guy who stuck a fork in Ric Flair's hand after he told Flair he can have some food in Japan. He probably wanted to wrestle with one eye every day, haha. The story of the match was just like you said - trying to jock for control and leave the better man. Nothing complicated and it worked out very well. While I'm a total fiend for some great storytelling in my wrestling, working a simple one such as a competitive nature behind a straight up wrestling match is right up my alley too. It hit the sweet spot and I didn't even know I was in the mood for it.
 
#5,986 ·
The Regal match is watchable due to Regal, but then it just turns into a squash. Nothing much to see. The IWGP Title match against Norton started off well with Norton being a powerhouse and Muta being overwhelmed by it and using his usual stall tactics, but the last like 5 minutes are Muta breaking the rules in shitty looking fashion and squashing Norton with the use of the ring bell tucked in his boot. It sucked and Muta basically acted like he never took any punishment. They had a much better match in like '93, but you won't even find online that that one even exists.

YOU'RE WELCOME for Jumbo/Slater. :sandow2
 
#5,988 ·
Hase vs Chono 93 G1 semi final is two bits away from five stars in my opinion. ChoTen vs Yamazaki/Iizuka and ChoTen vs Hashimoto/Hirata are great. One of the Koshinaka matches Ditch hosts is very good. Chono squashing Nakamaki or whoever that BJPW guy was in 97? Dome was greatest thing ever. MuCho vs Hase/Sasaki 90 is a given and the first G1 final is good. Chono vs Fujita and Chono vs Takayama G1 finals are both awesome old man performances. Kobashi defence I'm a fan of. That's every good Chono match off the top of my head on the elliptical machine.

Windham in AJPW was two JIP matches that were acceptable but not spectacular. The superplex float over remains forever beautiful, however. Tenryu did righteous jobbing on his way out, damn. A count out, two submissions and a pin fall or two over the course of two tours.
 
#5,990 · (Edited)
Yeah, it was great.


Big Japan Pro-Wrestling, Ryuji Ito vs. Abdullah Kobayashi championship series:


- Ring of Death Deathmatch (12/24/2003) ***1/2
- Scaffold Deathmatch (12/21/2005) ****1/2
- 450 Lighttubes Deathmatch (12/19/2010) ***
- Game of Death Deathmatch (12/18/2011) ***3/4

What can I say, honestly, this was awesome. These guys know this game, they know how to get their shit together. Deathmatch fans, you gotta watch this. Abby takes ridiculous amounts of punishment in every match, it's insane. Scaffold Deathmatch from 2005 is freakin' sweet.
 
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#5,996 ·
Some of my personal favorites:

Best of Great Muta Vol. 2
Best of Eddy Guerrero Vol. 2
NJPW 4/29/1996
AJPW Selection 07 & 08
Best of NOAH GHC 2001 (mainly for the finals but the semis are good too)
ROH Invades Japan Vol. 1

& definitely make sure to get the sampler.
 
#5,993 ·
CIMA (Team Veteran), K-ness (Windows) & Jimmy Susumu (Jimmyz) vs Akira Tozawa, Uhaa Nation & Kzy (Mad Blankey)
So i just finished from Dragon Gate Infinity 295. hell of a match, some of the back and forth seemed rushed and like a lot of the selling was thrown out the window at times to run a double, triple, or 10 man maneuvers. it was still a great main event, and i really want to see more of Uhaa Nation. I'm really starting to love the puro so much more as i have time to watch it. im trying to watch some older events from NJPW AJPW and NOAH so for someone who knows of some of the talent but hasn't seen a lot of the matches how do you guys go about it, i know of Jahmale Hepburns daily motion page that's where i get most of it, but the older matches would be great too but i can't seem to find to many places that have them.
 
#5,995 ·
Yeah, I hadn't watched any Dragon Gate since January, but I read a rave review of Infinity 295 & decided to give it a go. It was decent enough, but with the exception of Uhaa Nation (who I'm intrigued to see more of), the company is just ridiculously stale:

1. Doi, Yoshino & Ricochet vs. Saito, Kanda & Quu Quu ***1/4
2. Kong & Kagetora vs. Kid & Arai **1/4
3. Fuji vs. Kotoka *1/2
4. Yamato vs. Mochizuki ***1/2
5. Horiguchi vs. Swann **
6. Shingo vs. Hulk ***3/4
7. Tozawa, Uhaa & Kzy vs. Cima, K-Ness & Susumu ***1/2

For older Puro, your best bet is to start trawling back through these pages for recommendations & links. Youtube is chocka with classic puro. I wouldn't get caught up in the idea of watching full shows - there are enough must-see matches out there to last you a lifetime.

A great reference resource for all promotions / titles / major shows etc. is www.cagematch.net
 
#5,994 ·
I like Dragon Gate, but decide to let it fall under my radar thanks to the aspect of selling often times getting thrown out for the insane lucha-resu style of matches. It is a fun company overall with some top notch talent. I don't mean to undersell any tremendous outings that has come from the promotion.

Except I can do without seeing Uhaa Nation personally. Never liked him. All the rest are fine, haha.
 
#5,997 ·
I'd advocate getting any comps featuring Liger, Kobashi, & Vader too. Bulk of their work is always worth seeing. (Y)

Saw the card for the latest Junior tournament shows from NJPW. Already have some interesting matches lined up. Two on Night One should OWN.

Ricochet vs Kenny Omega & Prince Devitt vs Alex Shelley II. Hell yes.

Dominion is shaping up nicely. It isn't much of a spoiler considering Dontaku is when it was revealed but FINALLY Naito is back in action. I knew that's what he was talking about via his promo on the PPV. I may not speak the language, but I can piece together some parts to sort of understand. He's been greatly missed by me. Now he can come back and start being excellent once again. Another Naito vs Okada match. Please please please.

Speaking of Dontaku, yeah, I'm in the VERY small minority of loving Okada vs Suzuki. It was a complete 180 from their match at New Beginning & that wasn't a bad thing. I really really got into the tactical approach of the match. Slow in parts, yes. Relentless ground work by Suzuki was more than enough to keep my interest. Okada took a licking. Another match where it seemed Suzuki was having a perfect match en route to winning the championship. Almost hard to believe he didn't win it while watching spoiler free. It was right up my alley, personally. I can understand why it did turn some folk off. I can compare it to a few mainstream matches I've seen from WWE to the point of where slower, ground based pacing gave the match a polarizing outlook. I'm fine in being next to alone on this opinion - we all have our likes. ****

Perhaps tomorrow or even later I'll bust out a mini-review of sorts on the rest of the PPV. It got better once the premiere matches came on. I know for a fact that I'm probably the only guy who really liked Nakamura/Benjamin too. I've skipped all the reviews for the PPV so idk.
 
#5,999 ·
Checked out KENTA vs Sugiura 5/12/13. Wasn't my cup of tea. Luckily the rapid workrate moves type match was able to zoom on by for 32 minutes. I did get a bit more of a kick out of this match than I did that boring Morishima vs KENTA match from January. Dunno if I should watch KENTA vs MAYBACH. I can't get into KENTA matches anymore.

Atsushi Kotoge vs Daisuke Harada happens on the 5/12/13 too. OMG. Going to check that out right now. :mark:
 
#6,002 ·
I've heard that from a few different people when doing research about him. Do you know how he distributes his catalog these days? I read on another forum that he has "99.9% of Puro" and his full catalog is the size of a phone book (Which also had pictures to prove it) but I also read that he stopped sending it out in paper form? I guess I'll figure that out when I email him, just wondering what to expect as all I've ever dealt with until this point have been straight forward "online" sellers like IVP
 
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