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International Matches Discussion Thread

236K views 6K replies 264 participants last post by  steamed hams 
#1 ·
boo'urns.
 
#2,851 ·
how many strikers do step up on big occasions consistently though?

like reallym you could probably count the current ones who step up big time under pressure on one hand. there's some strikers who both do and don't perform on big stages. for example, rooney didn't score in either manchester derby's last season. but then there are other times where he has stepped up and scored important goals.

i'm sure that there are times in ibra's career where he has scored important goals. i think he scored in a couple of classico's, milan derbies, etc etc. those are still important games. it's just that he seems to have less consistency when it happens. or maybe it's just that in those 'big' games, someone else scores the goals?
 
#2,856 ·
no, but i find its rather amusing how alot of his ex teams often find success after hes gone

like i said, its merely a pattern one can draw from looking at the stats

its like with dzeko, it makes no sense, but somehow hes at his best scoring as an impact sub. but not as effective starting.
 
#2,857 · (Edited)
Like which ex teams exactly? Only Barcelona and Inter found success after he left because Barcelona had many great players already like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and they bought Villa(who is better than Ibra and his syle of play suits Barcelona) and they weren't dependent on Ibra. Inter spend a lot of money after they sold Ibra to buy Milito and many other great players, plus they got Eto(who was a better player than Ibra at that time)+60 million.

Look at how Milan is struggling this season after they sold Ibra.
 
#2,858 ·
Dude has 3 knockout stage goals. Fucking three. All against Arsenal as well. THREE KNOCKOUT STAGE GOALS. And you don't expect him to be questioned?

I remember how much junk he was vs Spurs in the 2011 Last 16. And people want to call this guy world class.

Talent is only half of it people. If you fold like a bitch when that big moment comes, then what use is all that talent?
 
#2,861 ·
The Ibra goal is sick, one of the best goals I've ever seen surely, but like Seabs said, the fact that it was an empty net nullifies its chances to be considered as the GOAT goal.

Neymar's penalty was hilarious :lmao :lmao :lmao

On the current Ibra debate, I personally rate him as one of the best players in the world today. Hell, only behind Ronaldo and Messi in terms of pure talent. If he'd actually start to give a shit in games then people will start to rate him higher than they do atm.

I agree that you've to perform in the big games to be considered an elite player. Take a look at Drogba and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's not a great player or whatnot. Just saying performing in big games would have propelled him to the height and class he wants himself in.
 
#2,862 ·
Ibra has control and ability in the game thats absolutely and utterly superhuman for a man of his size

Quite possibly the most naturally talented man in the game today. Scary part is, due to his physical attributes, loss of speed wont hurt him so he still has a while on top

Its just up to him to make the best of it
 
#2,867 ·
Ibra is in insane form this season, I'm not the one who get excited about an individual goal besides the initial reaction but that was one in a million. One of the best of all time. What bothers me is that the media waited for a goal like that to talk about him as a "Ronaldo/Messi" contender when he has a 8 championships in 9 years record with 5 different clubs(On his way to 6 clubs with PSG). He's up there without a doubt, a complete package of size, skills, power, athleticism, the best striker in the world. The most impressive thing to me in the goal besides his technique in the kick is his crazy instinct to jump that high(In his size and height)after 90 minutes of play. Amazing.

You look at his track record, big success everywhere he went, along with his exceptional ability and he's one of the best target strikers of all time.
 
#2,874 ·
You didn't want to give Ronaldo any due because he didn't do it in big games. Something I thought was true at a time (he is doing it in every game now). But yet you want to lavish Ibra with best striker in the world praise, even though he doesn't perform in big games.
 
#2,875 ·
Joel, just admit you were wrong about Ibra. You want to talk about performances in big games. Last season, Milan v Arsenal, Ibrah was the man of the match and had a 9/10 performance, van Persie meanwhile 5/10. Everyone here knows how much I love van Persie, I think he's the best striker in the Premier League (equal with Aguero I'd say), but at the end of the day, he's never won a league title in his career. Ibra on the other hand has won NINE league titles in his career. Also you go on about Ibrah's lack of goals in CL knock-out rounds, only scoring three goals in them. Falcao has only ever scored three goals in the CL overall. So you're contradicting yourself again.
 
#2,882 ·
Maybe that has something to do with the fact that Ibra's played for the best teams in those countries at that time, Milan, Juve, Inter, Barca, Ajax etc. RVP couldn't win the Premiership for Arsenal by himself. You can't put all that on him. If Ibra had been playing for Arsenal would they have won league titles? If anyone's arrogant enough to say that it's you even though it's incredibly hypothetical.
In the 07/08, I think we may have won the title with Ibrah. It's impossible to say really. I'm not sure he'd fit in that well at Arsenal from a personality stand-point. But yeah, hypothetical who knows. It's also worth noting that Ibrah was his teams best player in about half of those league title wins. Also, what you said about Ibrah going to the best teams, check this out. Ajax's last three league positions before Ibrah arrived: 6th, 5th, 3rd. With Ibrah: 1st, 2nd, 1st. When Ibrah arrived at Juve, they'd just finished 3rd, and with him, he lead them to two league titles in a row. Inter hadn't won the league for 18 years until Zlatan arrived and delivered them 3 league titles in a row. Milan hadn't won the league for 7 years before Zlatan won them the league. So yeah, your arguement is full of shit. Every single team he's gone to apart from Barcelona, he's turned around their fortunes big time.

Falcao has scored 4 in 8 games in the champions league, and 30 in 31 in the Europa league
I did get that slightly wrong. He has 4 goals in 8 games and one assist. So he has a hand in 0.625 goals a game. Not that much better than Ibrah's 0.57 goals a game. Also, if you look up the goals themselves, 3 of Falcao's 4 goals were tap ins, and the only decent goal came against the mighty APOEL Nicosia.

Also, when discussing players' credentials for being considered among the World's best, form in the Europa League is completely irrelevant.

You English are so against Zlatan, it's baffling quite frankly. I guess you are all so myopic that you only pay attention to the Premier League, Real Madrid and Barcelona.
 
#2,885 ·
I did get that slightly wrong. He has 4 goals in 8 games and one assist. So he has a hand in 0.625 goals a game. Not that much better than Ibrah's 0.57 goals a game. Also, if you look up the goals themselves, 3 of Falcao's 4 goals were tap ins, and the only decent goal came against the mighty APOEL Nicosia.
You're using that against Falcao? Oh he can only score tap ins! :lol what a joke you are, Bananas.

The amount of times he's single handedly won games in Serie A is astonishing. In League football, every game is a big game, as the same amount of points are at stake no matter what club you're playing. He's a proven match winner and a serial winner. So if you want to remain blind to greatness, go ahead. You're just embarrassing yourself now. The English watch this guy like once a year, and if he doesn't impress on that specific match that happens to be televised on Sky, apparently he's rubbish for the rest of his career. Good logic.
Every league game is not a big game. Don't try to bend stuff to suit your argument. Some games are more than the three points. The Milan vs Juve games. The Inter vs Juve games. The Barca vs Madrid games. These are games where you need to send a message to your rivals. To put doubt in their head. And apart from the first Clasico where he scored the winner, Ibra does not come to those parties.

Yes, he dominates all the weaker opposition. And that's also important. But that does not make you one of the greats.

Also, no one is calling him rubbish by the way. Learn to read, kid.
 
#2,884 ·
Well done, Ibra. One big match to his name against a team that is hardly a powerful force anymore. Congrats. Where was he in the next round vs Barca? Where was he in the league games vs Juve? Exlain those ones to me, Bananas?
The amount of times he's single handedly won games in Serie A is astonishing. In League football, every game is a big game, as the same amount of points are at stake no matter what club you're playing. He's a proven match winner and a serial winner. So if you want to remain blind to greatness, go ahead. You're just embarrassing yourself now. The English watch this guy like once a year, and if he doesn't impress on that specific match that happens to be televised on Sky, apparently he's rubbish for the rest of his career. Good logic.
 
#2,892 ·
In League football, every game is a big game


even you can't say you honestly believe this Bananas. Your telling me that title deciding matches are just as big and vital as those random top of the league V bottom of the league matches in October? Get the fuck outta here

As for the Ibra stuff no one has ever said he was a bad player just that he needed to step up more at times. Which frankly he does. Stats do tell a story but it's only half of that story. Frankly I'd take someone like Falcao over him any day of the week.

Now go ahead and tell me how Im a Liverpool fan and because of that I don't understand what football is :sid:
 
#2,886 ·
Ok, a couple of things. Nobody is denying that Ibra doesn't have amazing talent. Get that through your head first Bananas. Bullying League teams who will only finish in the lower 2 thirds of a table doesn't make you world class. By big games we mean against the best opposition in the world. You like stats so much so try and defend his record in the CL Knockout Stages. That's even exaggerated because of the Arsenal match last season. Arsenal were woeful in that away leg, especially defensively. They played like a bottom of the table team defensively in that match. When else has he delivered in the Champions League, aka the biggest Club competition in the world against the best players and the best defences in the world.

The Van Persie and Falcao comparisons are baffling. Van Persie was never going to win a league title with Arsenal. That doesn't devalue his individual quality. Last season he was phenomenal. You win titles by having the best team, not the best player. Falcao hasn't played close to the number of games in the CL that Ibra has so you can't even compare the 2 in that competition. Yes the early rounds of the Europa League aren't big games against big teams but the Final sure as hell is and just look at his record in the past 2 finals, along with the Chelsea game.
 
#2,888 ·
I still can't believe you more or less said every game in the league is the same. I honestly can't believe I just read that. For someone who tries to preach to other that they don't understand football, you really do not. You do not understand the mental and emotional side of the game at all, Bananas. Football is not robotic, it isn't some linear game where everything goes at it should. It's not just about talent. There is so much more. And you don't get that at all.

You're someone who has researched a lot of stuff from back in the day and while I respect that, you can only learn so much from reading and watching the odd game here and there. You only learn the statistics in that way and that is far from the whole story, buddy. You really don't get it.
 
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